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Gas Boiler vs. Electric Does it make a difference?


blackjack

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Hello,

I'm still in the "research" phase, and I had a question about stills. I was wondering if anyone out there is using electric for heat as opposed to gas? The first two spirits I hope to produce are Rum & Absinthe. I was thinking of purchasing 2 stills a 100L for the rum & a 35-50L for the absinthe. The space I am looking to lease does not currently have gas, and I'm concerned that the local code folks might have an issue with having it installed. The building is an old autoshop, so its got water and 3 phase electric in place. In terms of the quality of the final product will going with electric make a difference. Thanks

George

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Not at all, heat is heat. Electric i think is safer than gas unless your boiler source is far enough away. Our boiler is about 50' from the still and is in a sealed room with outside source for combustion air. Coop

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Assuming you are talking about gas vs. electric boiler then there is no difference in the end product. If you mean a still with electric heating elements built in I've read that it may have an effect on the final product depending on how it's implemented.

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Blackjack,

There are a few options for the sizes of stills you are considering. The first I would recommend is a cartridge heater. This comes in several sizes and for short money is stainless steel and is easy to control. It comes in 120 volt and 220. It is also easy to remove and clean( to avoid any build up). the second is a high temp heat tape with insulation wrap. The advantage to wrapping the still with the tape is that it is completely outside the vessel. It is not as efficient or as fast as the cartridge heaters but both work well. Both can be controlled within a few degrees with a couple of relatively low cost additions to your still. An Omega controller and temperature transmitter with simple relay(icecube style) will do the job nicely. You can go a little more low tech with a voltage potentiometer. It just has to be cranked up for start up, then dialed down for the run. Just a little more manual. I am not saying its better than a gas boiler, quite the contrary, but tis will work and work well. Feel free to contact me directly for more details on the part numers..anyone may.

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Blackjack,

There are a few options for the sizes of stills you are considering. The first I would recommend is a cartridge heater. This comes in several sizes and for short money is stainless steel and is easy to control. It comes in 120 volt and 220. It is also easy to remove and clean( to avoid any build up). the second is a high temp heat tape with insulation wrap. The advantage to wrapping the still with the tape is that it is completely outside the vessel. It is not as efficient or as fast as the cartridge heaters but both work well. Both can be controlled within a few degrees with a couple of relatively low cost additions to your still. An Omega controller and temperature transmitter with simple relay(icecube style) will do the job nicely. You can go a little more low tech with a voltage potentiometer. It just has to be cranked up for start up, then dialed down for the run. Just a little more manual. I am not saying its better than a gas boiler, quite the contrary, but tis will work and work well. Feel free to contact me directly for more details on the part numers..anyone may.

I appreciate all the information from everyone. Jester, I had a couple of questions about the cartridge heater- is it inserted inside the still, or vice versa. And as far as the tape goes, is it TTB approved for use? I guess my main concern is the possibility of altering the taste/quality of the final product. Thanks

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Blackjack,

If you have 3-phase power, go with electric. If you go with gas you could get propane rather than natural gas. The spirit doesn’t care. My personal favorite is direct-fired—ie wood—as with most of the small stills in Europe. But it’s not for everyone. Wood is free here in BC, so I’ve never paid a cent for power, but it requires a bit more fussing, just like a wood stove vs. electric heat. I’d also recommend you look at one larger still, say 200 litres or larger, rather than two small stills. The stills you mention—100 litres and 50 litres—are pretty small.

Good luck and happy distilling…

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I appreciate all the information from everyone. Jester, I had a couple of questions about the cartridge heater- is it inserted inside the still, or vice versa. And as far as the tape goes, is it TTB approved for use? I guess my main concern is the possibility of altering the taste/quality of the final product. Thanks

Blackjack,

The cartridge style heater is a stainless steel sealed unit. it goes through the still wall and buries into a compression fitting. I don't know about whether the TTB approves the heat tape or the immersion heater, but the Hydrogen industry accepts it with certain stipulations. Contact me and I will give you the part numbers or I will publish them here later on today.

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This is the type of heater I was referring to earlier-both are Mcmaster.com

4877K479

(Same as 3618K322)

Cartridge Heater with SS Lead Covering High Temp, 120 Volts, 3/4" Dia, 10" L, 2000 Watts

In stock at $74.34 Each

This heater would take about two hours to heat 20 gallons of wort up to temperature. it is best used with a controller and stirrer, the laboratory type with teflon magnet.

the tape is 1440watts as mentioned below and can heat to 450F

3631K85

(Same as 3631K14)

Easy-to-Wrap Heat Tape 3" Width, 10' Length, 120 Volt

In stock at $260.30 Each

The cartridge heater is a tube OD size and can be adapted from NPT threads.

I said I'd post these for any who are interested..

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Just a quick mental note:

(I'll do the math when I have longer to sit still)

Consider the cost/energy ratio for what will be accomplished. For example, what's the power rating of an electric boiler (in watts/kilowatts)? Then compare that to a gas boiler with the same capacity. How many BTUs is it rated for? Then find out what the cost per KW-hour is and the cost per therm (100,000 BTUs) that gas is.

You could reasonably compare the operating cost per hour and see if one or the other stands out significantly.

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Just a quick mental note:

(I'll do the math when I have longer to sit still)

Consider the cost/energy ratio for what will be accomplished. For example, what's the power rating of an electric boiler (in watts/kilowatts)? Then compare that to a gas boiler with the same capacity. How many BTUs is it rated for? Then find out what the cost per KW-hour is and the cost per therm (100,000 BTUs) that gas is.

You could reasonably compare the operating cost per hour and see if one or the other stands out significantly.

Paul,

I like your thinking, you are far from wrong. in doing these figures you do need to consider parasitic losses of any heat exchange. the boiler may be say 100,000 btu's whereas the exchanger , piping, jacket and vessel all offer losses. no different from any heat source. direct steam from a close source would be best. as we know a clean steam generator is expensive to say the least. I was working on a small CSG to direct steam a small still. it has fallen to the back burner, lost but not forgotten. I have a hundred or so engineers who I often ask to run numbers on this very subject. they love to crunch on things like this, especially when they know it is for this business, :-)

I think we all seem to agree, not the most cost effective but cheap and easy to install and control. no open flames too!

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We use electricity indirectly. We use a heater (3 phase, 440 volt) that cycles food-grade thermal oil through the jacket on our pot.

It's a more expensive solution than steam or a water bath, but it's codes-friendly, letting us exist downtown. As well, I'm a big fan of being able to control my pot's temperature down to one degree, and being able to pick a temperature from room temp to 350 degrees is dandy.

-A

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We use electricity indirectly. We use a heater (3 phase, 440 volt) that cycles food-grade thermal oil through the jacket on our pot.

It's a more expensive solution than steam or a water bath, but it's codes-friendly, letting us exist downtown. As well, I'm a big fan of being able to control my pot's temperature down to one degree, and being able to pick a temperature from room temp to 350 degrees is dandy.

-A

What type of still are you working with? Was the jacket an aftermarkert add-on?

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We're using a Vendome pot still and an antique pot still (formerly steam-fired) with the oil heater.

The Vendome pot's jacket was customed for oil by Vendome but is pretty close to their steam jacket. I'd imagine that, like the antique pot we're using, any steam coils or steam jacket that forces some manner of circulation would work with oil too.

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  • 1 month later...
Guest Liberty Bar - Seattle
Just a quick mental note:

(I'll do the math when I have longer to sit still)

Consider the cost/energy ratio for what will be accomplished. For example, what's the power rating of an electric boiler (in watts/kilowatts)? Then compare that to a gas boiler with the same capacity. How many BTUs is it rated for? Then find out what the cost per KW-hour is and the cost per therm (100,000 BTUs) that gas is.

You could reasonably compare the operating cost per hour and see if one or the other stands out significantly.

I did it a while ago - the cost of electric was crazily more when talking about either a number of 100L stills or a 300L. Gas is much, much cheaper - and as long as you have a fire retardant system? No problemo(ish).

If I can find the excel page I'll bring the info here. But, here in Washington, where we have hydro vs. natural gas - and our hydro is rather cheap, the gas was much cheaper.

That said, the control of gas is nowhere near the temperature control that electric offers.

Another issue is buildout: If one has to build in gas, that can be a lot more expensive than electric, for obvious reasons.

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I did it a while ago - the cost of electric was crazily more when talking about either a number of 100L stills or a 300L. Gas is much, much cheaper - and as long as you have a fire retardant system? No problemo(ish).

If I can find the excel page I'll bring the info here. But, here in Washington, where we have hydro vs. natural gas - and our hydro is rather cheap, the gas was much cheaper.

That said, the control of gas is nowhere near the temperature control that electric offers.

Another issue is buildout: If one has to build in gas, that can be a lot more expensive than electric, for obvious reasons.

I have to disagree with the last two points. Gas is very easy to control with a simple valve. In both cases if you use licensed installers the cost is probably less to install gas (LP in my case). For gas you are paying almost nothing for the piping but do have labor. For the heavy electric you need a large incoming service, heavy wiring, heavy switching/control, and the labor.

Keith

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I have to disagree with the last two points. Gas is very easy to control with a simple valve. In both cases if you use licensed installers the cost is probably less to install gas (LP in my case). For gas you are paying almost nothing for the piping but do have labor. For the heavy electric you need a large incoming service, heavy wiring, heavy switching/control, and the labor.

Keith

I found the same to be true. In fact, the gas company was willing to bring the piping from the street to my building for no cost based on projected usage. I did have the additional cost of putting in a boiler room for the gas boiler that wouldn't have been required of the electric boiler.

The electric company wouldn't bring the heavy service needed from the other end of the building to my end. The cost to upgrade the electric was going to be very expensive. I have 200 amps of three phase but needed more than that for the electric boiler.

I find the gas very easy to control at the still with two differently sized valves.

In my particular case it was going to be more expensive to startup the electric boiler and more expensive to run it on an ongoing basis. Your mileage may vary.

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