Jump to content

Iberian Coppers SA


JDP

Recommended Posts

I'm not familiar with the Armagnac still but I know there are a couple of members here that would speak extremely well of Iberian Coppers' customer service. David is gentleman and a pleasure to work with.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have a 500 liter alembic from Iberian Coppers. Very happy with it, the folks, and service. Highly recommended.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just so people know, not everyone got this wonderful service and quality product. (<- points to self)

I may well be the extreme exception, but I did want to post in the interest of full disclosure and honesty.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Anyone have any experience with Iberian Coppers SA equipment? The company? Or, the Armagnac still?

I have a 1.25 liter Nerolta Sterno-powered still from Italy which looks just like the one on the Iberian Coppers site. I found it on a fluke at a 'Home Goods' to on-sale for $50! It makes a "whopping" 2oz of high-proof in a few hours.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I purchase my "parrot" spirit receiver/hydrometer wells from Iberian Copper; six so far. I order them from Portugal on a Sunday evening, the order is filled and I consistently receive these by Wednesday via FedEx Express! David offers great service and has earned my trust!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm not sure what trouble Phoenix had. Because of my own clumsiness, I broke a brass casing thermometer. I emailed Iberian on a Sunday afternoon, checking on availability. David called me at 1:00am Portugal time. I explained it was my fault but I had a free replacement in 48 hours.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sorry this took so long to put together. It's something of a novel. All the pictures are linked to my site rather than embedding the photos inline.

Problems with my alembic

My alembic is a 35 liter water sealing system. I haven't been able to do much with it as for the longest time I was waiting on permits. I did a couple runs, or more accurately tried some runs.

I want to say that I know a number of people have these units and are usually happy with them. They are handmade and so may need minor adjustments, such as a bit of solder around the water inlet on the condenser. I have a 5 liter alembic and for it's size, it runs fine. But for a production size still I didn't want that style and so became interested in the "water sealing" alembic due to it's lyne arm instead of swan's neck, as well as the larger diameter opening to fill the boiler.

The first problem was the bottom of the alembic has 4 dings in it from the inside of the pot and the metal is of a much thinner gauge than the sides or the top. The dings shouldn't be there but they won't be a problem in running. The thinner metal at the bottom concerns me quite a bit. My little 5 liter "standard" alembic isn't like this.

Picture of dents in the bottom of the boiler:

http://www.delawarephoenix.com/alembic/bottom1.JPG

The second problem was the worm coil had an upward bend in it. This little bend created lots of backpressure and it ran very slowly (maybe 5 ml/min) and stuttered. Also, significant pops on the mash as well vapor pops from the water sealing system.

A friend was able to gently bend the coil. To him it was obvious there was an upward path. You cannot believe the problems this caused.

The next run was better, but vapor pops from the water sealing channel continued while the run rate was almost equal to the 5 liter. And then I noticed along a seam on the top of the alembic where the two components are joined. There was a puddle of alcoholic liquid that had condensed and vapor escaping from it. After shutting down that run I tested the top. In this photo where the lid is upside down, on that flat surface you could pour water and have it stream out on the outside of the alembic. I sent the top of the alembic to a friend who brazed the seam on the inside and soldered on the outside.

Here are links to images before I had the seam worked on:

http://www.delawarephoenix.com/Assets/images/alembic/A.JPG

http://www.delawarephoenix.com/Assets/images/alembic/B.JPG

http://www.delawarephoenix.com/Assets/images/alembic/C.JPG

And images after the repairs:

http://www.delawarephoenix.com/alembic/helmet_inside.jpg

http://www.delawarephoenix.com/alembic/helmet.jpg

http://www.delawarephoenix.com/alembic/helmet1.jpg

The inside seam still isn't the best, as it's not a complete seal between the two pieces of metal, but vapor doesn't escape. I'll be using a mixture of rye flour and pure cold-pressed linseed oil to seal that better, both inside and out.

On the next run, I didn't have any obvious leaks, but I think there's vapors escaping into the water sealing channel. More on that below.

There are four problems as I can see, imo. If someone with more knowledge of the physics of gasses, especially within distilling equipment, wants to share their knowledge, I for one am very interested in learning. Maybe some of these things aren't problems.

1. The top of the alembic does not sit properly on the boiler.

2. An inner flange seems to be placed incorrectly.

3. The connection between the lyne arm and alembic is not smooth.

4. The connection between the lyne arm and the condenser contains a "pinch point" where the piping goes from 1/2" ID to 1/4" ID and back to 1/2" ID.

1. The top of the alembic doesn't sit properly on the boiler. In comparing the pictures from the company web site and my unit, it seems that on my unit the top does not sit as deeply as it should. I know the lip of the top is covered by only 2 or 3 mm of water. It's simply not possible to push the top down more tightly on the boiler. Having such a small amount of water means having a not very good seal and also you have to frequently recharge the water sealing channel.

The rim of the alembic isn't very even because it's out of round, both horizontally and vertically. The horizontal wouldn't matter so much if the helmet sat deeper onto the boiler. The vertical problems means that even though the top sits tightly on the boiler, you can rock it back and forth (ie up and down). So you can make it tight on one side, but not on the other.

I'm not quite sure of the solution to this problem.

2. There's an inner piece of metal, I'll call it a flange, but that's probably not the correct name. I'm not sure of it's purpose. The diameter of the boiler opening is 13 1/4". The diameter of the flange on the alembic is 12 1/2". That means there's a 3/8" gap all the way around the inside of the boiler. If this flange is supposed to meet the sides of the boiler, it won't do so. All it seems to do is create a place that vapor can go and has no escape except through the water sealing channel. This is the source of the vapor pops, imo. It doesn't help that there's only a little bit of water covering the rim.

http://www.delawarephoenix.com/alembic/helmet_measure.JPG

http://www.delawarephoenix.com/alembic/boiler_measure1.JPG

If this "flange" met the rim of the boiler, this would provide a partial seal, and provide smaller space for the buildup of any pressure between this flange and the outer rim of the alembic. This is the way the standard alembics work.

Here is a rough schematic of the layout of the alembic and boiler:

http://www.delawarephoenix.com/alembic/alembic_drawing.jpg

Basically vapor gets up in that little pocket of space and once enough pressure builds up, the vapor will find it has the easiest escape out through the water sealing channel. And too, some vapor may condense and fall into the water as well.

3. The connection between the lyne arm and alembic isn't a good transition. On the inside of a "standard" alembic you can see how nice an smooth this nice. The vapors are led by physics on only one path, up into the swan's neck.

With the unit I have, this isn't so. This is another place for tortured geometry and the gasses to be confused about where to go and not having a simple path to lead them to the condenser.

This isn't a great photo.

http://www.delawarephoenix.com/alembic/pot2lyne.JPG

This may not even be much of a problem.

4. On the little 5 liter the inside dimensions of the plumbing connection between the swans neck and the condenser are the same. 1/4". This isn't the case with this unit. And from the pictures on the manufacturer's web site, it certainly looks like it shouldn't be that way either. At least the 1/2" ID of the condenser coil should be met by a 1/2" ID lyne arm. That's my opinion.

http://www.delawarephoenix.com/alembic/lyne2condenser1.JPG

http://www.delawarephoenix.com/alembic/lyne2condenser2.JPG

Once again, this may not be much of a problem. 99% of my problem could be the top of the alembic and it's not fitting well with the boiler. Maybe that's all the problem. Unfortunately, fixes on my end aren't too easy to do.

Some of these things I wasn't sure if it was a problem or not. All along I presumed that the manufacturer had made the product correctly and I wasn't using it properly. I'm not convinced of that any longer.

I never got a response to my initial inquiry that the alembic didn't sit very deeply in the water sealing channel. When I had the leaks in the helmet, I was told to use the cold pressed linseed oil and rye flour paste to seal the leaks. "Works great." It may well work great, but to my way of thinking the product wasn't tested at all by the maker.

I'll do what I can to get the alembic to work well enough to make my product. I'm still confident I can accomplish that one way or another. Hope springs eternal.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I guess if had been able to spot some of these problems when I first got the still I probably would have done that.

Not knowing there were going to be these problems I had a custom heating mantle made for that boiler. And given my low level of confidence in the manufacturer at this point, I'm not inclined to fight the battle of sending the existing unit back, in the hope that they'll be able to make a unit that will fit the heating mantle. I guess dealing with the problems I have is easier for me, and might be less costly right now.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

My alembic is working now. The cause of the backpressure was:

A marble sized clump of clay/dirt that was stuck in the lyne arm at the bend leading to the condenser.

Today I ran the last of the trash batch used for testing the still and it ran fine. So I have a functioning piece of equipment. In spite of some deficiencies (imo) on the design and manufacture of this water sealing alembic, there aren't any vapor leaks., and no vapor pops through the water sealing channel.

And my mechanical wizard friend was able to remove the 1/4" insert in the connection between the lyne arm and condenser, so I now have a nice 1/2" straight connection for the vapor.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...
Guest Liberty Bar - Seattle

Wow.

Marc - have you noticed any of these problems? You use the oil/flour paste yourself, and that does not seem to be a big issue, but have you noticed any other issues like are described?

And, did you send these pictures to the manufacturer? If so, what did they say?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 11 years later...
On 1/28/2009 at 7:14 AM, delaware_phoenix said:

Just so people know, not everyone got this wonderful service and quality product. (<- points to self)

I may well be the extreme exception, but I did want to post in the interest of full disclosure and honesty.

I also had a very bad recent experience with these people. On May 25, 2020 I submitted payment to Iberian Coppers for a copper alembic Bain Marie. It arrived badly damaged, and the situation still has not been resolved over 3 months later.

I spoke with FedEx at their request and filled out paperwork certifying that it was badly dented, but there has been no resolution and it has been several months now. Iberian stated that they were doing everything they could behind the scenes to remedy it, but only when I wrote to them to ask what's going on. Otherwise they don't communicate.

Right after FedEx called me early on, my farmhand took a closer look at the still and then showed it to my husband. It was clear that it had been dropped, rolled on the floor, and scratched before it was packed. Someone from IC had tried unsuccessfully to buff the scratches out and apparently just gave up and mailed it to me anyway. Both my husband and farmhand work in manufacturing & food/water environments so they knew what they were looking at. This was very careless treatment by their staff members of an expensive product.

Iberian Coppers keeps telling me to use the still the way it is until a new one comes in because FedEx won't ask for it back. I'm not going to do that - it seems unethical to me and like a trap.

 

I've been very patient with them but now I'm out of patience. It looks like I’m going to have to file a dispute for the charges with the bank. This was not a small purchase and their customer service has been less than professional in handling of this situation.

 

Can anyone recommend a reputable copper alembic still maker?  These folks sure are not!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 1/27/2009 at 12:29 PM, JDP said:

Anyone have any experience with Iberian Coppers SA equipment? The company? Or, the Armagnac still?

I had a very bad recent experience with these people. On May 25, 2020 I submitted payment to Iberian Coppers for a copper alembic Bain Marie. It arrived badly damaged, and the situation still has not been resolved over 3 months later.

I spoke with FedEx at their request and filled out paperwork certifying that it was badly dented, but there has been no resolution and it has been several months now. Iberian stated that they were doing everything they could behind the scenes to remedy it, but only when I wrote to them to ask what's going on. Otherwise they don't communicate.

Right after FedEx called me early on, my farmhand took a closer look at the still and then showed it to my husband. It was clear that it had been dropped, rolled on the floor, and scratched before it was packed. Someone from IC had tried unsuccessfully to buff the scratches out and apparently just gave up and mailed it to me anyway. Both my husband and farmhand work in manufacturing & food/water environments so they knew what they were looking at. This was very careless treatment by their staff members of an expensive product.

Iberian Coppers keeps telling me to use the still the way it is until a new one comes in because FedEx won't ask for it back. I'm not going to do that - it seems unethical to me and like a trap.

I've been very patient with them but now I'm out of patience. It looks like I’m going to have to file a dispute for the charges with the bank. This was not a small purchase and their customer service has been less than professional in handling of this situation.

Can anyone recommend a reputable copper alembic still maker?  These folks sure are not!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...