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agitator, single or three phase?


natbouman

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Getting a direct fire, 250 gallon still from Hoga. Included in the invoice is a 1,000 rpm 3-phase XP agitator for $1,320 USD. We don't have 3 phase so I'd need to get a rotary converter or electronic inverter for an additional cost of $500-600. I like the idea of getting the agitator that Hoga has picked because I'm assuming it works well with their stills. Wondering what people think, if telling Hoga to keep the agitator and go with a single phase unit is a better idea or go with the one they're selling.

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Once you get over 1 or 1.5hp - 3 phase is most common, especially in explosion proof variations. I would use their agitator - they presumably have the mounting and geometry setup correctly. That price isn't out of line considering the XP motor and more importantly, and agitator system with a vapor tight seal.

We have single phase as well, and use a VFD/Frequency Drive - We picked up a drive for a few hundred bucks online (Closer to $250) and had our electrician install it in a box outside of the classified area. It's nice since we can adjust the speed as necessary.

Don't forget about the cost of the electrical work - rigid threaded conduit, vapor seals, flexible conduit to the motor, and an explosion proof disconnect near the motor.

Oh wait, direct fire...

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get a TECO FM50

Get it based on the HP of the agitator. It will electronically convert single phase into three phase. You can get one on ebay for $250.

All VFD convert AC in to DC and then back to AC. So you can go 1 or 3phase in and 3phase out.

With a VFD you can adjust the speed and torque load and many other options of the motor itself. A Rotary phase converter is just on or off.

Plus the VFD's are about the size of two soft balls put together.

questions please call, we use them all over the place.

515-559-4879

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get a TECO FM50

Get it based on the HP of the agitator. It will electronically convert single phase into three phase. You can get one on ebay for $250.

All VFD convert AC in to DC and then back to AC. So you can go 1 or 3phase in and 3phase out.

With a VFD you can adjust the speed and torque load and many other options of the motor itself. A Rotary phase converter is just on or off.

Plus the VFD's are about the size of two soft balls put together.

questions please call, we use them all over the place.

515-559-4879

I think that's the one I ordered from you? Having it has made my life a lot easier, when I mash in the still I crank the speed up to break up the clumps and when I'm doing a run I'll have the speed turned down. The "soft"/gradual on/off is really nice too because the motor doesn't jolt on anymore.

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As far as direct fire goes it depends on where you are at as well. Here in the rural MO county that I am in, you can build whatever you want without a permit. There are no electrical, plumbing or any other inspections required. Of course they have all of that in town, but not out here in the county. Since there are no electrical inspections out here you would think that houses would be burning down left and right, but that is not the case. I had a sawmill and wood products manufacturing business here and I did all of the wiring myself and I built my own rotory phase converters. I ran several large 3 phase motors that totaled over 250 hp, from a single phase service for over 17 yrs with no issues. No building permit or electrical inspection required.

I could put in a 500 gallon still here with a propane burner under it with no issues. The Fire Marshal runs the feed store in town. He has no problem passing a direct fired still for me. However, I personally would never run a still fired directly with gas. I will sell a customer a gas fired direct fire still, if that is really what they want and I cannot talk them out of it, but it states plainly in my safety manual that gas fired direct fired stills should only be ran outside in the open air. If they are ran indoors an explosion resulting in serious injury or death may occur. I am not liable if they run it indoors. All of our larger stills have EX agitators as well as the appropriate Apollo over pressure and vacuum relief safety devices. You can never be too careful.

I am WEG distributer. All of our WEG VFDs are programmed before they leave here. I have better pricing than most of my competitors. These VFDs can have single phase or 3 phase inputs with 3 phase out. These drives are UL listed and they are NEMA4X wash down. You can put them 20' under water and the enclosure will not leak. They also have self contained motor protection. There is really not a better VFD out there that I know of. If you need a great VFD at a great price call 417-778-6100 and ask for Paul.

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Ah, the direct fire issue always comes up. Thanks for the advice about 3 phase agitators. Very helpful.

As for direct fire. We just had a big barn burn down last year. It was an old timberframe, 3 stories. So hot that the metal roof floated off the top like paper. I had about $8,000 of virgin black cherry wood burn up in that fire. Boards 16" wide. Can't replace that--let alone almost losing my own skin getting the tractor out. So, I'm afraid of fire and explosions. It took a lot of research and experience to convince myself that direct fire could be safe as long as the still was never left unattended.

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