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Jean-François Théorêt

100% Rye mash without additional external beta-glucanase enzyme?

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I am planning on doing a 100% rye mash (75% raw and 25% malted), 800lbs to 400 gal brewing liquor. We have a hammer mill with 1/16, 1/8 and 5/32 screens. 

I know rye has a high beta glucan content and I was wondering if it was possible to do a batch without adding external enzymes. I am not sure of the contents of beta glucanase in the rye malt (and if a rest at 98-113F would help)

Also, any suggestions on screen size for milling?

Thanks

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Oh the horrors! Why would you want to do that?? To answer your question I think you can.  Malted rye is about 100 or so degrees lintner.   You need somewhere in the ballpark of 30 degrees lintner to self convert which should leave you enough to convert the raw. I can't imagine (although I've not tried) a 30 min or so rest in the temp range indicated would solve the gummy/thickness problem.  Why the aversion to adding beta glucanase?

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2 hours ago, indyspirits said:

Oh the horrors! Why would you want to do that?? To answer your question I think you can.  Malted rye is about 100 or so degrees lintner.   You need somewhere in the ballpark of 30 degrees lintner to self convert which should leave you enough to convert the raw. I can't imagine (although I've not tried) a 30 min or so rest in the temp range indicated would solve the gummy/thickness problem.  Why the aversion to adding beta glucanase?

Thanks for the info - I wanted to do trial tests without purchasing for $500 worth of enzymes, but I'll go ahead with the enzymes anyways. I'm going to purchase Viscoferm beta amylase.

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I believe you can buy small quantities from enzymash.com 

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What SilkCity said. We get our high temp alpha and gluco from specialty enzymes. $160 for 10kg

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Try BSG. They may send you samples to try. Rye makes a nasty mess without enzymes

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Myself and a couple others haven't had the best results (very low conversion) with Specialty, but each of us were using wheat.  I've been very happy with using Novozymes.

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On 7/8/2016 at 10:15 AM, Jean-François Théorêt said:

I am planning on doing a 100% rye mash (75% raw and 25% malted), 800lbs to 400 gal brewing liquor. We have a hammer mill with 1/16, 1/8 and 5/32 screens. 

I know rye has a high beta glucan content and I was wondering if it was possible to do a batch without adding external enzymes. I am not sure of the contents of beta glucanase in the rye malt (and if a rest at 98-113F would help)

Also, any suggestions on screen size for milling?

Thanks

My reply is a bit late, but yes, it is possible as long as you do not intend to lauter. The 25% malted rye should have sufficient DP and I have seen recipes use less. The main trouble makers in a rye mash are the beta-glucans, but xylans can also cause some problems. Malt xylanase and beta-glucanase have optimal temps of around 38 C (100 F) and 45 C (113 F) respectively, and rye is around the same, so a your rest would help somewhat with the viscosity but don't expect too much. Depending on your equipment, it might also be hard to get up to mash temp with even heating.

I have done several tests using both SEBFlo-TL and ViscoSEB (which contains xylanase in addition to other enzymes) individually and in combination, mostly on 100% malted rye mashes for fermentation and distillation off the grain in a traditional pot still. If you need to further reduce viscosity, I would recommend using these together. The supplier (Specialty) will give you samples.

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3 hours ago, SpiritedConsultant said:

I have done several tests using both SEBFlo-TL and ViscoSEB (which contains xylanase in addition to other enzymes) individually and in combination, mostly on 100% malted rye mashes for fermentation and distillation off the grain in a traditional pot still.

With the specialty enzyme products were you actually able to lauter??  I've never seen rye malt with a husk what did you do for your filter bed?

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4 hours ago, indyspirits said:

With the specialty enzyme products were you actually able to lauter??  I've never seen rye malt with a husk what did you do for your filter bed?

Yes, with a very generous amount of rice hulls (don't remember the % I used). It's much easier if you have a separate lauter tun. I had best results when mixing in half the hulls with grain and laying the other half down as a filterbed over the false bottom of the lauter tun before filling from the mash tun. Produced a nice whisky on a direct fired alembic.

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NovoZymes will also send out samples. I've been with them after my fair of shopping around with different companies. Plus I think 2 jerry jugs delivered was like $480. That amount of Enzymes will last you.

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