Changing Neutral Spirit Commodity in approved formula

[rtshfd]

As with colas, is it an accepted practice to change the commodity of a neutral spirit (from whey neutral spirit to grain neutral spirit) on an already approved formula as it applies to COLA approval?  I know I can change the statement on labels without approval, but is that the case for a DSS formula that is attached to that label?  

put in other words: if I have an approved COLA for a formula that utilizes whey neutral spirits, but i'd like to start using grain neutral spirits, must I submit a new formula stating that?  

[bluestar]

New formula. Write the next one more generically if you can.

[rtshfd]

18 hours ago, bluestar said:

New formula. Write the next one more generically if you can.

lol I tried.  They didn't like "neutral spirits."  They forced me to claim a commodity. Thanks for the input.  

[bluestar]

1 hour ago, rtshfd said:

lol I tried.  They didn't like "neutral spirits."  They forced me to claim a commodity. Thanks for the input.  

You must claim a commodity, but you can claim multiple alternatives, so you can cover it all in one formula, but they must all be in a similar "class". So you can list a range of grains. But you probably can't do "whey or wheat" for example. You can do "whey and wheat" and indicate one as being larger in quantity. This is being driven by the need for the formula to support a source statement on the label like "distilled from grain" or "distilled from whey". You can imagine, that if you are going to use "distilled from whey and wheat", you must have both present, and likely whey more than wheat. The issue is that the formula is the only document that can be used to verify or justify the required statements in the COLA, so it must be written in a way to do so, or they likely won't allow it. If one keeps that in mind when writing the formulas, they may be more likely to be approved, I think.

[rtshfd]

22 hours ago, bluestar said:

You must claim a commodity, but you can claim multiple alternatives, so you can cover it all in one formula, but they must all be in a similar "class". So you can list a range of grains. But you probably can't do "whey or wheat" for example. You can do "whey and wheat" and indicate one as being larger in quantity. This is being driven by the need for the formula to support a source statement on the label like "distilled from grain" or "distilled from whey". You can imagine, that if you are going to use "distilled from whey and wheat", you must have both present, and likely whey more than wheat. The issue is that the formula is the only document that can be used to verify or justify the required statements in the COLA, so it must be written in a way to do so, or they likely won't allow it. If one keeps that in mind when writing the formulas, they may be more likely to be approved, I think.

Interesting.  This is for an absinthe and along with formulation comes lab sample submissions.  As I'm not changing the approved thujone level, I'm trying to avoid having to submit a separate formula that would require another round of samples which means months of time.  

 

**edit**: It would appear I can submit a superseding formula which will not require a new sample as long as I can explain it's just the base changing and not the botanical load.  Once approved a new COLA will need to be submitted for the new formula.  

[bluestar]

On July 19, 2016 at 11:16 AM, rtshfd said:

**edit**: It would appear I can submit a superseding formula which will not require a new sample as long as I can explain it's just the base changing and not the botanical load.  Once approved a new COLA will need to be submitted for the new formula.  

Yes, that is true. Although in reality, you have to keep the same still, same operating conditions, and the same starting proof, same steeping time, to insure the same botanical load, strictly. But the TTB likely does pay that much attention to those details.

[rtshfd]

On 7/20/2016 at 3:12 PM, bluestar said:

...you have to keep the same still, same operating conditions, and the same starting proof, same steeping time, to insure the same botanical load, strictly...

That would be the intent and the formulation agent basically said that this was my only option without waiting months for lab work.  The good news is that he was reviewing formulas that are a day old at that point so they seem to be making headway in regards to processing formulas.  COLAs are another matter.