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Corn Mashing Temp

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I was checking to see on what temperature to mash the corn?  I have seen multiple articles and many different temperatures to Mash.  Anywhere from 212-155.  Any thoughts?

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We hold ours at 190 with good results.  More than you want to know at link below:

http://digitalcommons.unl.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1118&context=foodsciefacpub

The most important line is:

Quote

 

 Almost all the (starch) granules were irreversibly disrupted at or before 80 °C.

 

 

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I am lazy I dump my water in at 95 deg C and it takes about 2 hours in my jacketed fermenter to get to 80 deg C so it has pretty good conversion.  Its the no heating mashing method that I read about and tried.  Its been working. The last couple of corn mashes that I did this way got 6% ABV on the beer and it made some pretty decent moonshine even distilled off grain.  

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Depends on your enzyme temp stability. In my experience corn can gel fully anywhere over 174 and maybe even lower temp, but your talking much much much much much longer time needed to cook the lower you are then the standard, which is already long. Stick closer to 190s, if you don't have temp tolerant enzyme use some pre malt.

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Thanks Slickfloss. I think the next couple of corn washes I do I am just going to add 15% malted barley when the temp comes down. 

 

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14 hours ago, SlickFloss said:

Depends on your enzyme temp stability. In my experience corn can gel fully anywhere over 174 and maybe even lower temp, but your talking much much much much much longer time needed to cook the lower you are then the standard, which is already long. Stick closer to 190s, if you don't have temp tolerant enzyme use some pre malt.

We are currently using a White Labs temp stable alpha-amylase prior to beginning the boil and heating to 190 f.  Directions says to add pre boil and that enzyme will be de-activated during the boil.  If doing a method like DonMateo talked about, adding the water super hot with the grain and letting it cool, would adding the alpha amylase at its highest stable temp during cool down still be beneficial?  Is there a reason you want the alpha to be de-activated at some point?  We also add barley at 145 f.

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11 hours ago, DonMateo said:

Thanks Slickfloss. I think the next couple of corn washes I do I am just going to add 15% malted barley when the temp comes down. 

 

Adding it while, before, or just after you hydrate your corn helps with liquefaction but if it goes above 160 its deactivated for conversion. So make sure any pre malt is sacrificial in terms of conversion.

 

2 hours ago, Still_Holler said:

We are currently using a White Labs temp stable alpha-amylase prior to beginning the boil and heating to 190 f.  Directions says to add pre boil and that enzyme will be de-activated during the boil.  If doing a method like DonMateo talked about, adding the water super hot with the grain and letting it cool, would adding the alpha amylase at its highest stable temp during cool down still be beneficial?  Is there a reason you want the alpha to be de-activated at some point?  We also add barley at 145 f.

I think mashing out enzymes etc is more of a beer brewers practice but I am not sure, I know that I like to use pre malt on my corn, cook the crap out of it, then add the alpha on the way down so it is not deactivated. You want as much conversion as possible as a distiller because that is our yield vs a brewers total yield is the fermented mass itself, they need to worry about left over non fermentable or "not fermented" fermentable (difference) sugars to make their beer palatable. 

 

Using hot water instead of steam in the jacket to actually get to temp is a very smart move. We do it here. We will mash in at a ridiculous grist ratio and then use hot water to jump from hydration temp to liq/gel temp. However, we like to make a hyper saturated cool(er) slurry with the grain first, then blast it with the hot water. So for corn we'll start at room temp turn steam on while we mash in, we will have end up with all corn and a little pre malt in at about 3-4 to 1 grain to water ratio be full mashed in at a hundred degrees about, then add hot water (boiling if possible) to slurry while we mix. It will end up around 170/174 we will use steam jackets to heat to 190 and hold for  conversion. We will also use an addition of water to cool to next stage after we've hit our cooling minimum time limits.

 

 

Hope this helps I'm scatter brained working on a saturday morning

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3 hours ago, SlickFloss said:

but if it goes above 160 its deactivated for conversion

 So dont bother adding it.  Corn doesn't gel until 175 ish.  Add your HTA at 185 and be patient.

 

 

 

 

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On 4/14/2018 at 3:42 PM, indyspirits said:

 So dont bother adding it.  Corn doesn't gel until 175 ish.  Add your HTA at 185 and be patient.

 

Why wait until 185 to add the HTA?

 

On 4/14/2018 at 11:52 AM, SlickFloss said:

 However, we like to make a hyper saturated cool(er) slurry with the grain first, then blast it with the hot water. So for corn we'll start at room temp turn steam on while we mash in, we will have end up with all corn and a little pre malt in at about 3-4 to 1 grain to water ratio be full mashed in at a hundred degrees about, then add hot water (boiling if possible) to slurry while we mix. It will end up around 170/174 we will use steam jackets to heat to 190 and hold for  conversion. 

Is there an issue I am not understanding with skipping the pre malt and adding HTA at room temperature as you begin to mash in? That way as you begin to heat to 190 (whether by steam jacket or the adding of hot water discussed here) the liquefaction can begin as the corn begins to gel in the mid-170’s. Seems more efficient for heat transfer from the steam jacket as well as less strain on your agitator trying to move that thick mash until reaching 185 and adding HTA.

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55 minutes ago, DenverDeviation said:

Why wait until 185 to add the HTA?

I dont know what the hell I was talking about. I meant don't add barley on the heat up as it is denatured at 170ish. We add HTA  immediately after mixing in corn and adjusting pH.  I remember once we forgot to add it and the agitator started to labor a bit when all of starch was disrupted.  Quite amazing how quickly after adding HTA it thins out.   So yes, I agree with you that it makes sense to add HTA early so the second starch is available liq. can start.

 

 

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