Wooden Floors

[iskiebaedistillery]

Anyone know any regulations in regards to wood floors? I was looking at a potential site that had wood floors, it is an old industrial building. 

[indyspirits]

Well at least it wouldn't be too difficult to cut in floor drains!!  In all seriousness, how big of a still are you planning on? This seems to be a bad idea for numerous reasons.

[captnKB]

Id second indy. Wood floors would be setting your self up for huge headaches down the road unless you are building a micro micro distillery

[iskiebaedistillery]

We are going to be be very micro, our still is 55 gallons, we have a 200 gallon and 300 gallon dairy bulk tank for fermenters, a 160 gallon mash tun, a 400 gallon cooling pond, etc. The space is 3000sf which will include the cocktail room. The building in the past would process soaps and hold the chemicals, it is meant for pretty heavy use and has sprinklers, the beams in the basement are huge. I am getting my architect out there early next week to see if he sees any red flags. The proposal by the landlord gives a fairly nice allowance to help with the buildout, but I am unsure of what to do with the wood floors. I think if it came down to it, concrete could be poured, but I'm sure it would be extremely expensive and eat a large chunk of the allowance. 

[Tom Lenerz]

Point load can be an issue with wood floors. The floor might be rated for the pounds per sq ft you need for a pallet, but when you lift with a pallet jack all that weight is distributed on three little points you could be popping holes in the floor. Same goes for the tanks, might need something to widen the feet so they don't poke holes in the floor when full. Your architect should be able to help you with that.

Personally I would say wood floors are a no go for production space. I can't imagine the inconveniences in regards to cleaning, both the floors themselves and equipment on top of it.

[Skaalvenn]

1 hour ago, iskiebaedistillery said:

We are going to be be very micro, our still is 55 gallons, we have a 200 gallon and 300 gallon dairy bulk tank for fermenters, a 160 gallon mash tun, a 400 gallon cooling pond, etc. The space is 3000sf which will include the cocktail room. The building in the past would process soaps and hold the chemicals, it is meant for pretty heavy use and has sprinklers, the beams in the basement are huge. I am getting my architect out there early next week to see if he sees any red flags. The proposal by the landlord gives a fairly nice allowance to help with the buildout, but I am unsure of what to do with the wood floors. I think if it came down to it, concrete could be poured, but I'm sure it would be extremely expensive and eat a large chunk of the allowance. 

I'm pretty sure we looked at that same building a few months ago. It's a cool space, but it would cost a ridiculous fortune to get it usable and up to the Minnesota codes.  For instance, Minnesota requires the walls and floors be sealed/washable in the production space.  I don't know how on earth you could get that building to appease your inspectors for any reasonable amount of money.

With the floors being ~100 years old and wooden, you'd need an engineer to do a very thorough (expensive) inspection and analysis because if there's a weak spot in the floor it could easily kill someone.  The wood frame building might also cause issues with insurance as well, but I'm not certain.

Just my $0.02

[iskiebaedistillery]

Hi Tom, thanks for the reply. That makes sense, we could build build a frame for each fermenter and then tile it.  That way a rectangular box is spreading the weight. Ill update this with what the architect thinks of it. As far as cleaning goes, I think we will tile the productions space. But I'm not sure how this is even done. One distillery in a similar situation suggest concrete board and tiles, but they are also a rural farm distillery, and unfortunately a lot of that stuff doesn't fly in the city. 

 

Hi Tyson, yes I agree, it does look like a ridiculously expensive project. I think the biggest hurdle will be the floors, however. I think the wood frame should be ok because it is sprinkled, and a lot of times if the beams are big enough they have a higher fire rating than steel according to an architect who works with another local distillery.

 

Here is a pic of the potential space, there are offices mixed in which would be demolished:

This is a pic of the floor support from the basement:

[Falling Rock]

I wouldn't worry too much about the strength of the wood, but what's under the wood floor? Is it on the first floor of the building? If it is, remove the wood, fill and pour a concrete floor.

Side note...when National Distillers closed, 1987ish, in Cincinnati they tore down several buildings. I bought salvaged lumber, wood flooring and joist, from them. I have some still in my garage and a work bench made from it. To this day if I cut a piece of that lumber it smell like whiskey.

[iskiebaedistillery]

Hi Falling Rock, it is the first floor but there is a basement under neath it. The basement has an elevator and will actually work great for a rick house.  The second/lower picture is from the basement looking up at the support for the floor. So the distillery will be above the second picture. The beams are very hefty, personally I am not as worried about weight as much as the fire and cleaning aspect.

 

That is so awesome about the salvaged lumber. I see a lot of wood in the production spaces in the large distilleries, many use cypress wood fermenters as well.

[Tom Lenerz]

27 minutes ago, iskiebaedistillery said:

 

Hi Tom, thanks for the reply. That makes sense, we could build build a frame for each fermenter and then tile it.  That way a rectangular box is spreading the weight. Ill update this with what the architect thinks of it. As far as cleaning goes, I think we will tile the productions space. But I'm not sure how this is even done. One distillery in a similar situation suggest concrete board and tiles, but they are also a rural farm distillery, and unfortunately a lot of that stuff doesn't fly in the city. 

 

Seems like a decent plan. If you can run a 'containment' style tile pit around the tanks and tie it to a floor drain you might be golden. Judging from those pictures it looks like the current occupants are using whatever that sheet is to help with the point loading issue, just a guess though. Looking at those floor boards it might not be an issue at all. It looks like it could be a really cool space.

[iskiebaedistillery]

Hi Tom, Yes those are steel plates. I think you are right, for point loading and for easy in moving around the pallet dollies. Thanks, we will see what the architect says monday. The architect just confirmed that timber beam over 6" have great fire ratings, and these are at least double that. The planks, however, are not of course.

[Falling Rock]

So, the basement below is yours?  You can do whatever it takes to shore the first floor under the still/tanks, pour a cement or epoxy "tub" as needed where needed.

[iskiebaedistillery]

Yep the basement is below. Yeah, I plan to separate the productions space and cocktail room with a glass wall, so we can poor cement, tile, epoxy or whatever in the production space, separate from the cocktail room.