Location close to residential area: How hard is it to get approved?

[dhdunbar]

A final comment - I just got a call from a TTB specialist who is starting a review of an application I submitted on behalf of a client.  She said she is just starting it, but wanted to ask, before she did, if the DSP was located on a tract that also had a residence.  Again, she had not looked at the application.  I talked with her briefly and asked if TTB was routinely asking this question now - it is the third time I've been asked about this in a month .  She said that since the passage of the PATH Act, the one that did away with bonds for persons paying less than $50K in taxes, TTB has been getting a lot of applications from persons who want to start small distilleries in buildings near their residence, so they are asking up front if their is a residence, because the process is longer if there is.  Note, she did not say, as TTB did ten years ago, that it is prohibited.  She said the process takes longer.

As an aside, because the comment is too short for me, it appears that some home distillers, who exist by virtue of a low profile and TTB enforcement priorities that wisely follow the no-harm no-foul rule, now want to qualify as distilleries, since they don't need a bond.  I would conclude that it is home distillers, because the cost of the bond, what $130 at the minimum end of things, with fees, has never been a bar to entry by anyone who wants to make a business of distilling. That prospect may sound libertarian-cool, but my gut tells me things would not go well if TTB started handing out distillery permits like a Ped dispenser.  

[Southernhighlander]

1 hour ago, dhdunbar said:

That prospect may sound libertarian-cool, but my gut tells me things would not go well if TTB started handing out distillery permits like a Ped dispenser.  

 Thanks for the info dhdunder.  I will let my home distilling customers know about that.  The  best case scenario would be the full and complete legalization of home distilling don't you think?  Home distilling has been legal here in MO for 9 years now and our state ATC and the rest of our state law enforcement are on board with it and we have had no issues because of it and we have thousands of home distillers in our state.

[dhdunbar]

This thread takes off in different directions. 

There is a difference between home wine and home beer production and commercial  beer and wine production.  It is a sensible distinction .  The country already has 5000+ breweries.  It does not need 40,000 or 400,000 home brewers added to the commercial rolls.  I think, since you ask for my opinion, that the spirits situation is analogous.   If you think TTB acts slowly now, what would you expect if they had to deal with double, triple, or 20 times the number of permits they now have.  I think commercial producers who rely on responses from TTB do not want the DSP/Specials ratio to balloon. 

So, if they legalize home production, then they must make it separate from the commercial side.  That means that congress y would need to pass a law - this is something TTB cannot do at its own initiative - and TTB would have to write regulations, limiting what home producers can do.  No sales, etc. 

Next, what about limitations on quantities that a home distiller could produce.   Wine is limited, for families, to 200 gallons annually.  An alcohol equivalency standard, at 14% ABV and 40% ABV (wine and spirits respectively) would reduce the limit for spirits to  28 proof gallons of spirits a year, or 35 gallons a year.  An equivalency standard at $0.17 per gallons vs. $13.50 a proof gallon - assuming 14% and 80% alcohol again - reduces the quantity even further.  At $0.17 per gallon, 200 gallons of wine has a tax value of $34.  That is the equivalent of 2.5 proof gallons of spirits at 80 proof.  Since it is unreasonable to assume that moist people would adhere to such limits, congress might be reluctant to grant any right of home production. Would the congress authorize the yearly production of 200 wine gallons at 80 proof, or  250 proof gallons, having a tax value of over $3000?  Or how about the argument that the kids would hijack Mom's the still and turn a keg of beer into spirits for their next party?  

I personally don't give a hoot.  I'm not arguing for equivalency; I'm pointing out the sort of hurdles you could expect in the legislative process. 

[Southernhighlander]

Home distilling is very popular in all parts the US right now.  We have the same pressures now that brought about the legalization of home beer and wine making in the 70s.  I believe, that we are going to see home distilling legalized in the next 6 years years at the federal level and we may see other states go the way of MO before that happens.  Also within the next 20 years we will see Craft, Micro and Nano distilleries as common as we see breweries now.  Most counties in the US will have 1 or more distilleries, on the average.   Here in MO, residents 21 years of age and older shall not be required to have a permit to distill spirits.  If the resident is single, they are allowed to distill up to 100 gallons per year and if they are married, they can distill up 200 gallons per year.   That has been state law since 2009 and we are doing just fine

 My grandmother home brewed and made wine for more than 45 years before it was legalized.  She was really excited when it became legal.  She had a bottle capper and she bottled her beer in soda bottles and she stored it in a building that she called the dug out, along with her wine and preserves.  She also made muscadine wine and a peach brandy that was incredible.  My cousins and I got into her beer and wine a couple of times, but Grandma striped our asses with a hickory switch and padlocked the dug out, so we had to seek out other sources 

Home canning using a pressure cooker is far more dangerous than home distilling.  Legalized, home distilling and the addition of many more small distilleries will make the art of distilling blossom in the US, just like home brewing and micro distilling has helped brewing blossom here.  I see a good outcome not a bad one.   Things always change.  

 

foreshot, when you find your space and need equipment give me a holler.  I have a line of vacuum stills coming out soon that you might find really interesting .  Heat up to operating temp times of less than 1 hour using hot water in the jacket.  No ignition sources anywhere in the distilling area.  Distillation at a very safe 135 F or less.  Use a hot water heater or hot water boiler to power the still.  No expensive steam boiler needed.    Very fast distillation times.   Very good price points with capacities from 45  to 1000 gallons.  paul@distillery-equipment.com

[Foreshot]

Thanks Paul.  Once I get my space sorted out I will give you a call. I have a couple designs I want to run past you for a fermenter. After doing some research and experiments I am working on a very different design. 

[Southernhighlander]

Foreshot,

 

Whatever you need we can build it for you.

Thank you.