Rye mash

[BigRed]

Looking to try our first rye mash. Have heard only horror stories about the gooey mess it creates. I have no problem trying a very thin mash (1.040). Can anyone recommend mash temperatures and time? I will also get some beta-glucanase to go with alpha and gluco amylase. 

[indyspirits]

What are you looking at for your mashbill? 100% rye? It's unpleasant but far from wretched.  beta rest in mid/high one-teens, gluco @ high 140s and bobs your uncle.  Dont even consider lautering or you'll be thinking about giving up your first born to alleviate the angst.  

[indyspirits]

Follow up question: raw or malted rye?

 

[Silk City Distillers]

We do a 100% unmalted rye, step mash.  We rest in both beta-glucan and proteinase ranges with appropriate enzymes to take care of glucans and compensate for the fact that we're using raw grain.  I find a finer mill on the raw rye increases the effectiveness of the rests and enzymes.  Rough crack tends to reduce effectiveness.  We dumped our first 1yo barrels of it a few weeks back, it's amazing.  Northeast Ryes are going to be a force to be reckoned with in a couple years.

Pay close attention to your temp and pH for each step of the process.  The tighter the ranges you can maintain, and the more diligently you stick to the process, the easier it gets.  I can not stress this enough.  Each step has an ideal temperature and pH.  There is a ton of brewing literature on step mashing, this all applies.

Caveat, we're setup to run on-grain start to finish, we don't attempt to lauter anything.

 

[indyspirits]

2 hours ago, Silk City Distillers said:

Caveat, we're setup to run on-grain start to finish, we don't attempt to lauter anything.

 

What this guy says!!

[indyspirits]

2 hours ago, Silk City Distillers said:

There is a ton of brewing literature on step mashing, this all applies.

http://howtobrew.com/book/section-3/how-the-mash-works/the-protein-rest-and-modification

[BigRed]

Wow, lots of info to pour over. I would like to try 100% rye to get a better idea of the flavors. With malted rye, do you still need additional enzymes due to viscosity from the glucans? Plan would be to ferment grain in, definitely wont try to lauter. I am worried about the step mash because of the crappy cooker I have. Can you reverse mash with rye? So start higher, 145, then bring it down to 115? My brewer books dont cover rye in enough detail, what pH is optimum at those steps?

[indyspirits]

8 minutes ago, BigRed said:

With malted rye, do you still need additional enzymes due to viscosity from the glucans?

Well... I would advise it. Beta glucan rest on the way up just makes life more pleasant.  

More good stuff -->  http://realbeer.com/jjpalmer/ch14.html

[Silk City Distillers]

52 minutes ago, BigRed said:

So start higher, 145, then bring it down to 115? My brewer books dont cover rye in enough detail, what pH is optimum at those steps?

The whole point of the step mash with enzymes is to avoid the difficultly of working with the sticky, high viscosity rye.  Start high and you lose all the benefits.

[Ironton]

100% Malted Rye can be done with lautering, if you have the right equipment. Coming from the beer world, I only work with off grain and controlled fermentation/inoculation, therefore I designed my system to work with all types of grain (i.e. malted, unmalted, 100% corn, 100% rye, etc.). The key for us was a vey wide mash tun with dual steam jacket zones.  

For 100% Malted Rye, we do a step mash with enzymes and about 12% rice hulls of total mash bill. As said before, stick to your temperatures for your rests and maintain a proper pH of you will be sorry. Lucky for us production guys, we can do the same thing over and over in our sleep. Once you get it figured out, its easy sailing.