TTB regs ABV / PROOF DURING AGEING

[PeteB]

I would be interested to know peoples thoughts about the following

tps://www.ttb.gov/spirits/bam/chapter4.pdf 

RYE WHISKY³ Whisky produced at not exceeding 80% alcohol by volume (160 proof) from a fermented mash of not less than 51 percent rye and stored at not more than 62.5% alcohol by volume (125 proof)

Last week I bottled a barrel that I filled several years ago with spirit at 61.3%  On testing, and re-testing, the whisky is now at 68.5%. The Angels Share has removed more water than alcohol which is usual at my distillery in Tasmania, no issues with Australian regulations.

But if I was in USA under TTB it has been stored for some time at more than 62.5% 

What implications would that have to you guys?

[Roger]

You can just charge more for it. I believe Booker sells "ovenproof" . It is very common in the industry. The rules dictate what goes in, not what happens once it's in there.

Prost 

[PeteB]

I think you are correct, but that is not what the wording says in BAM pdf, it says "stored at"

5 minutes ago, Roger said:

....... "ovenproof" ...........

 

 

[Tom Lenerz]

On 2/10/2018 at 7:08 PM, PeteB said:

I think you are correct, but that is not what the wording says in BAM pdf, it says "stored at"

 

As long as it is entered into a barrel below the 125 proof it is still good. The TTB allows for natural proof climbing as part of maturation. 

[PeteB]

Tom, I am in no doubt you are correct, I am just trying to point out an easy to see mistake in the TTB wording that is open to interpretation by both distillers and TTB agents. 

"entered at" and "stored at" have different meanings and can have very different end results

It is little wonder that different TTB agents will give different answers (did one say run the spirit through an oak trough then it is whisky?) If the answer suits you then get it in writing.

 

[Tom Lenerz]

43 minutes ago, PeteB said:

Tom, I am in no doubt you are correct, I am just trying to point out an easy to see mistake in the TTB wording that is open to interpretation by both distillers and TTB agents. 

"entered at" and "stored at" have different meanings and can have very different end results

It is little wonder that different TTB agents will give different answers (did one say run the spirit through an oak trough then it is whisky?) If the answer suits you then get it in writing.

To define 'stored at', the general accepted definition would be 'put into storage at'. The documentation for depositing into the storage account would contain both proof gallons and proof at entry. If the proof climbed while in aging and you reported the proof gallons stayed the same or increased the TTB would likely suspect foul play. If the proof increases and proof gallons removed from storage is less than what is entered, the TTB will accept this proof climb as a natural part of the aging process. There are numerous examples of overproof cask-strength whiskeys in the US.  Not to mention almost all dump/batch records for most of the Kentucky distillers would show this proof climb for every withdrawal from storage for the last 50 or so years. Since the TTB audits the large distilleries producing these whiskeys every 3 years I think they would have issued clarification if they had an issue with it.

[Silk City Distillers]

I don't know if anything supersedes TTB Ruling 79-9, but it seems to indicate the TTB recognizes the difference between Entry Proof and Barrel Proof, even though there haven't been changes to the CFR to memorialize it.

The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms has recently recognized the need to establish guidelines for use of the terms "Original Proof," "Original Barrel Proof," "Entry Proof" and "Barrel Proof" on distilled spirits labels. 

No standard definitions have been issued by the Bureau specifying when and under what conditions distilled spirits labels may bear phrases indicating that the proof of the spirits when originally produced and when bottled is the same. Previously, the Bureau commented on the use of terms such as "Original Proof," "Original Barrel Proof," "Entry Proof" and "Barrel Proof" on a case-by-case basis. 

Although these terms are to defined in the regulations, they have acquired certain meanings when used on distilled spirits labels. 

To preclude any misunderstanding and to effect standardization in the use of these terms, the Bureau is issuing guidelines as follows: 

Held, a distilled spirits label bearing the phrase "Original Proof," "Original Barrel Proof" or "Entry Proof" indicates that the proof of the spirits entered into the barrel and the proof of the bottled spirits are the same. 

Held further, "Barrel Proof" on a distilled spirits label indicates that the bottling proof is not more than two degrees lower than the proof established at the time the spirits were gauged for tax determination.