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Foreshot

Canned Cocktails?

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Anyone doing this? What is your experience with it? Good/bad/etc? How does one legally make a canned cocktail?

I ask as I will have access to a canning line. It seems like a waste to ignore the possibility.

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We don’t do it, but yeah it CAN be done. 

12 oz cans (355 ml) are an acceptable fill size for spirits. Other sizes are not outside of the typical spirits fills. So if you want to do something smaller you would have to find a specialty can. 

Keep in mind most mobile lines have minimums, not massive ones, but the one I checked on was 10 beer barrels or 310 gallons.

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Cool, thanks for the info. 

I think I would call it a cordial/liqueur for TTB purposes? Or am I missing something? (cause that is likely)

(h) Class 8; cordials and liqueurs. Cordials and liqueurs are products obtained by mixing or redistilling distilled spirits with or over fruits, flowers, plants, or pure juices therefrom, or other natural flavoring materials, or with extracts derived from infusions, percolation, or maceration of such materials, and containing sugar, dextrose, or levulose, or a combination thereof, in an amount not less than 212 percent by weight of the finished product.

 

 

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3 hours ago, Silk City Distillers said:

Inquiring minds want to know.

Canned microbrews are out of control these days, is this a trend worth jumping on?

The brewery that is doing my mashing has a canner. That's more my reason for checking into it. If it's available I should at least do some investigation.  

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Why not just DSS?  Rock and Cola, Agave-spirit Margarita, Can-of-Stormy, etc etc etc.  Somebody want to look up the COLA for Fore Loco or whatever the heck that crap was?

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26 minutes ago, Foreshot said:

Cool, thanks for the info. 

I think I would call it a cordial/liqueur for TTB purposes? Or am I missing something? (cause that is likely)

(h) Class 8; cordials and liqueurs. Cordials and liqueurs are products obtained by mixing or redistilling distilled spirits with or over fruits, flowers, plants, or pure juices therefrom, or other natural flavoring materials, or with extracts derived from infusions, percolation, or maceration of such materials, and containing sugar, dextrose, or levulose, or a combination thereof, in an amount not less than 212 percent by weight of the finished product.

 

 

If it is a liqueur then yeah, otherwise it is DSS, like Silk mentioned.

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I was thinking of having a crowler machine in the tasting room, not the dsp, and mixing cocktails to go in it. Haven't researched the legalities yet though.

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On 3/8/2018 at 10:51 AM, adamOVD said:

I was thinking of having a crowler machine in the tasting room, not the dsp, and mixing cocktails to go in it. Haven't researched the legalities yet though.

Nope. You need to be a DSP, you are acting as a rectifier (blending, flavoring, packaging, selling spirit).

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There is a commercial distillery here in BC who created a canned product called 'Mike's Hard Lemonade'. I guess you could call that a cocktail in a can! So, assuming one has the correct licensing, I would expect that there would be a good market for well developed canned cocktails. BTW, Mike's Hard Lemonade has made the distillery hundreds of millions of dollars, because, you know: 'It's An Excellent Source of Vodka!' (Their positioning line.)

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I just saw today that Coppercraft Distillery in Holland, Michigan is releasing a canned Gin & Tonic soon. 

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18 hours ago, RBDistiller said:

I just saw today that Coppercraft Distillery in Holland, Michigan is releasing a canned Gin & Tonic soon. 

Yes, very well-funded competition just up the lake from you guys. Have you thought of doing it?

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1 hour ago, bluestar said:

Yes, very well-funded competition just up the lake from you guys. Have you thought of doing it?

DEVOS  family bought it. $$$$

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Growlers in the tasting room are not allowed  for at least two reasons.  1.  The tasting room is not on bonded premises.  If it is, TTB erred in approving it (19.52 ).  All DSP operations, which include bottling, must take place on bonded premises.  So no bottling on other than bonded premises (see definitions of distilled spirits operations and bonded premises in 19.1).  2. You cannot remove spirits in bulk (containers of more than one gallon) from the DSP to anyone not qualified to receive bulk spirits .  The proprietor of a tasting room, retail area, is not among those qualified to receive spirits in bulk at any place other than the bonded premises (27 CFR 1.80 and following). 

Bottling is a processing operation.  The bottling line must be on bonded premises when you conduct the bottling operations (19.1 again).  You could alternate an adjacent brewery line from brewery to DSP, but it must be adjacent (19.143).  You could probably qualify an outside area to DSP premises (you can have outside tanks - 19.74 -, so ...), but I'd want to frame that proposal carefully.  Ditto from alternating an outside area that is designated as general premises to use as bonded premises (19.143 again).

TTB talks about containers.  Containers for sale to consumers can be either approved liquor bottles or cans.  5.11 - "Bottle. Any container, irrespective of the material from which made, used for the sale of distilled spirits at retail."  

The standards of fill for cans is found in 5.47a(2) For metal containers which have the general shape and design of a can, which have a closure which is an integral part of the container, and which cannot be readily reclosed after opening—

355 milliliters - 

200 milliliters

100 milliliters

50 milliliters

 

  

 

 

 

 

 

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Thanks dhdunbar I was pretty sure it would be a no go. It would be cool though.

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They do make a resealable screw top can for beer - miller, anheiser, and coors all use it or some form of it. 355ml would be a 12oz can... so if you made your cocktail in your bonded premise and used one of these aluminum screw top cans - doesnt that work? 
Or am I missing something?

-Scott

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Just use a mobile canning line - who cares if you don’t meet the minimums, work it in.

Packaging is easy, formulation is another matter entirely.

Try making tonic from water and trying to carbonate a G&T in a Sodastream.  Not so easy, lots of mopping.  Force carbonation will require pressure tanks and very cold temps.  

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You may be able to force carbonate the way we do beer in 5 gallon soda kegs. We dump CO2 into them at higher then pumping rate and shake. You can do it without shaking too but you have to pump the C02 in the "out" port and give it time to absorb. Once you hve it gassed you can tap it out with a bottle filler. Just a thought..

 

Edit: OR just go for non carbonated drinks!

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On 3/10/2018 at 11:47 AM, Shindig said:

DEVOS  family bought it. $$$$

Yup. They own the property next to my summer house ;-)

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20 hours ago, Scott.S said:

They do make a resealable screw top can for beer - miller, anheiser, and coors all use it or some form of it. 355ml would be a 12oz can... so if you made your cocktail in your bonded premise and used one of these aluminum screw top cans - doesnt that work? 
Or am I missing something?

-Scott

That can work. As long as it is done in the DSP.

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On 3/10/2018 at 10:54 AM, bluestar said:

Yes, very well-funded competition just up the lake from you guys. Have you thought of doing it?

I threw out the idea to the higher ups when I saw that they were doing it. 

I heard about the Devos purchase a while back, our table was next to Coppercraft's table at the Michigan Craft Distillers festival last fall, their rep that was there seemed pretty excited with that kind of money backing them. 

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Here's something from from 5.47 a(2) that causes me to question screw caps -  "For metal containers which have the general shape and design of a can, which have a closure which is an integral part of the container, and which cannot be readily reclosed after opening"— leads  to conclude that TTB may hold that cans with a screw  cap are considered to be containers that must meet the standards of fill for bottles.  There is no reason, in law, that that should be the case, but they obviously went to the trouble of adding the extra language integral and reclosing language for some perceived reason.  Would TTB even take note of this?  Who knows?  But I'd hate to see someone invest in screw tops only to find that TTB puts the kibosh on such a container.  I suggest asking first.  

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On 3/12/2018 at 7:29 AM, RBDistiller said:

I threw out the idea to the higher ups when I saw that they were doing it. 

I heard about the Devos purchase a while back, our table was next to Coppercraft's table at the Michigan Craft Distillers festival last fall, their rep that was there seemed pretty excited with that kind of money backing them. 

Yeah, it is a big deal. They did a great redo of their facility: expanding brewhouse, adding full kitchen, larger bar, and very attractive glass curtain separation from front of house to the stills. Very impressive. I think it is less to compete with other area distillers than with nearby New Holland, since they needed to do something to attract people to the location, being off the beaten track (New Holland is downtown). A lot invested, but not just in the facility, also improving product, bottling, and marketing. I presume to make that pay off, they plan to market nationally.

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