Case Sales Database

[B&Co]

Is there a federal or state database for calendar case sales for each licensed distillery?

[daveflintstone]

Seriously?  That's the most intrusive request I've ever heard.

[B&Co]

I didn’t make any request, simply asked if existed. Articles are often published documenting the annual case sales of this brand or that. TABC in Texas publishes monthly alcohol sales of every bar in the state. Simply was wondering if that data sits in a public database somewhere. Have a great Saturday.

[brentondouglas]

The state of Oregon makes information on alcohol sales public

[daveflintstone]

Control states will publish their sales figures.  Public corporations will publish their sales figures.  Your op inquired about a database for calendar sales for each licensed distillery.  That is incredibly intrusive, and should be obvious that most privately owned distilleries, like most privately owned businesses, do not publish their annual sales volume.  Unless I'm completely missing something and every distillery on this forum would like to step up and post their annual case sales right here.

[Sudzie]

There's an IWSR / Park Street 2017 report I've read and that I can't republish but I think it's online somewhere that has great figures. One that I recall is out of the 1800+ DSP's close to 1600 +/- sell less than 550 cases per year.  That blew me away.  And that represented 20% of all sales, and this from the 85% of DSP's. The other 15% sell 80% and of that 80% remainder less than around 5% sold most of it.  It's been awhile since I read the report and may be off a smig, but I'm sure you get the idea. There's a whole bunch of DSP's not making a whole lotta juice and a very few making most.  Another stand out is they discovered that a DSP's removing less than 10,000 PG annually was most likely still cash flow negative.  I know this isn't a ray of sunshine, but one needs to know the road their on to get to where they set off to go.

Mash on,

Dave

[B&Co]

2 hours ago, Sudzie said:

There's an IWSR / Park Street 2017 report I've read and that I can't republish but I think it's online somewhere that has great figures. One that I recall is out of the 1800+ DSP's close to 1600 +/- sell less than 550 cases per year.  That blew me away.  And that represented 20% of all sales, and this from the 85% of DSP's. The other 15% sell 80% and of that 80% remainder less than around 5% sold most of it.  It's been awhile since I read the report and may be off a smig, but I'm sure you get the idea. There's a whole bunch of DSP's not making a whole lotta juice and a very few making most.  Another stand out is they discovered that a DSP's removing less than 10,000 PG annually was most likely still cash flow negative.  I know this isn't a ray of sunshine, but one needs to know the road their on to get to where they set off to go.

Mash on,

Dave

So on the margin, their study finds you need to move 4,000 annual cases of 750mls to operate in the black.

[Sudzie]

8 hours ago, BATCH said:

So on the margin, their study finds you need to move 4,000 annual cases of 750mls to operate in the black.

The presenter of the study mentioned the break even number was around 5000 / 9lt cases depending on ones overhead situation and margins of product sold. 

[Blackheart]

I'm gonna wade in here and say that the 4000/5000 case number has a bunch of qualifications attached to it.  How and where they sell that volume matters.  What is their retail to wholesale balance?  Do they sell 80% of their volume in their distillery store?  Do they sell 80% of their volume in cocktails at their distillery bar?  What state are they in?  What metro area are they in?  You get the point: there are too many variables to list that would put a number on case sales/breakeven point.

[Sudzie]

5 minutes ago, Blackheart said:

I'm gonna wade in here and say that the 4000/5000 case number has a bunch of qualifications attached to it.  How and where they sell that volume matters.  What is their retail to wholesale balance?  Do they sell 80% of their volume in their distillery store?  Do they sell 80% of their volume in cocktails at their distillery bar?  What state are they in?  What metro area are they in?  You get the point: there are too many variables to list that would put a number on case sales/breakeven point.

Totally agree with all of your points and their spot on.  This study was not presented as definitive information, but as adverages based on industry and TTB information.  Your mileage may vary based on vehicle type, style and how it's driven......   But with that, it does give a set of numbers to shoot for and shows that the largest percentage of current DSP's as of now come no where near close to profitability. And don't forget you can have positive cash flow and still loose money, (or even the converse) but hang in there for quite a while until things work themselves out or not.  One thing I've learned in 40+years of being self employed, it not for the faint of heart and wouldn't do it anyother way!

[dhdunbar]

TTB collects the data (think of the back side of the processing report, where you state how many wine gallons of spirits you removed by type, which is all information used to prepared the statistical data), and publishes the aggregate figures.  Because the reports are "tax return information," that is, they are required by the Internal Revenue Code, TTB is prohibited by law  from disclosing the figures for individual distilled spirits plants.  Under 26 USC 6103,. it is a felony; the equivalent of disclosing information from your Form 1040.  Guaranteed confidentiality means that you cannot fail to report the proceeds of illegal activities on the grounds that it would be self-incriminatory.  

I might add, with a smile, that I'm pretty sure there are a lot of errors in what gets reported to TTB ? .  

Shaken publishes some figures, but I've never seen them, because they cost more than I am willing to pay, so I do not know how deeply down they drill.  I'm certain that they can't know what most small distilleries do unless the small distilleries volunteer the information.  

[brentondouglas]

For instance,  I just downloaded a public report from OLCC which documents:

1. the exact number of bottles sold in Oregon of every SKU of every distilled spirit product for the years 2016 and 2017

2. the total dollars sold in Oregon of each distilled spirit SKU for the years 2016 and 2017

It's interesting stuff.   Some of the micro brands that are perceived as "successful" sell surprisingly low numbers.  It helps me realize that micro distillers are totally wasting their psychic energy by feeling "competition" amongst each other.  If only we could sell 1% of what Smirnoff coconut flavored vodka sells........

 

[B&Co]

Could I steal that link Brenton?