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Grain in mash pump

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Has anyone tried using the Enoitalia Euro 20 flexible impeller pump for transferring grain in mash ?

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It'll work but it'll work hard. I wouldnt go smaller than the E30. And keep in mind impellers for those can be difficult to get (if at all).

 

 

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14 hours ago, indyspirits said:

It'll work but it'll work hard. I wouldnt go smaller than the E30. And keep in mind impellers for those can be difficult to get (if at all).

I second getting the E30 instead. Shop around, prices vary. Definitely plan on keeping a spare impeller on hand, and eventually the gasket rebuild kit. The impellers will run much longer if you remember to never run dry, don't leave the motor in idle, don't run at excessive elevated temperature, and re-lubricate regularly. But note that the E30 can not be used for pumping mash at high temperature, for that you will need a SS centrifugal pump.

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Porkchop,

These Europumps that you are looking at do not appear to have UL listed  motors.  Our new pumps have UL listed explosion proof American made Baldor motors for class 1 division 2 hazardous environments.  The closer you can place that mash pump to the still, when you are pumping out of it, the longer your impeller will last, however the area within 6 ft  from any part of the still is a class 1 division 2 hazardous environment.  Here is a link to our 20gpm pump.  The pump head is a Jabsco. Jabsco invented the flexible impeller pump.  https://shop.distillery-equipment.com/collections/brewing-distilling-equipment-accessories/products/20-gpm-jabsco-flexible-impeller-pump  The VFD drive is washdown rated and is liquid proof and vapor proof.  Also impellers for these pumps are easy to get.  We keep them in stock.

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I agree, if you need to pump near high proof alcohol or where vapor is being produced, you will need an explosion proof pump. But you can use the Europumps near the still if the still is not operating and no high-proof spirit is in or near it at the time. In any case, ourselves we do and I would recommend placing the pump closer to the fermenter and farther from the still, and have an 8'+ hose to the still.

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On 6/25/2018 at 10:28 AM, bluestar said:

But note that the E30 can not be used for pumping mash at high temperature, for that you will need a SS centrifugal pump.

Are you certain you can pump grain-in mashes with a centrifugal pump? I was always under the impression centrifugal pump were intended for very clean, water-like mashes -- single malt, etc.  Agree that pumping high temp mashes with an IP is a recipe for disaster, a $170 disaster.

 

 

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1 hour ago, indyspirits said:

Are you certain you can pump grain-in mashes with a centrifugal pump? I was always under the impression centrifugal pump were intended for very clean, water-like mashes -- single malt, etc.  Agree that pumping high temp mashes with an IP is a recipe for disaster, a $170 disaster.

 

 

I've been using a 1.5" -> 1.5" centrifugal for wheat mashes for 3 years without issue.  I just hit the mixer beforehand so that I'm not trying to pump settled grain.

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Conventional wisdom is that suspended solids will cause the impeller on a sanitary centrifugal pump to wear prematurely, and anything that restricts the inlet flow of a centrifugal pump risks causing cavitation, which will also cause premature impeller wear. The use of sanitary centrifugal pumps should generally be restricted to products with water-like viscosity (Skaalvenn's experience to the contrary).

The best solution for mash is either a flexible impeller pump like our Jabsco SQN 20 or SQN 50, or an RPD pump.

We've definitely been seeing more interest in RPD pumps like the Jabsco Hy~Line. Although they are much more expensive than a flexible impeller pump they have some big advantages:

  • They can run dry
  • They can be easily CIP'd
  • They can run super-hot product through them (up to 355 °F when spec'd appropriately)
  • You never have to change out the impeller

The only downside with them is that they generally need a flooded inlet because they are not self-priming (much like sanitary centrifugal pumps). Waukesha pumps get around this by having metal-on-metal contacting heads which helps them pull suction and self-prime. However eventually the metal-on-metal contact wears down and the heads have to be rebuilt, which is $$$.

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2 hours ago, indyspirits said:

Are you certain you can pump grain-in mashes with a centrifugal pump? I was always under the impression centrifugal pump were intended for very clean, water-like mashes -- single malt, etc.  Agree that pumping high temp mashes with an IP is a recipe for disaster, a $170 disaster.

Okay, my mistake, I often use the term "centrifugal pump" to cover both the rotary positive displacement pump and the variable velocity centrifugal pump. The difference is the shape of the impeller, RPD don't allow liquid to bypass the vanes. You could in principle use a centrifugal pump, but they will lose pumping speed with increased viscosity or solid content. But the RPD we have been using for years ourselves. You need high-enough horse power, but we do 2" with corn mash or rye mash, and we actually run those while heating to 190F using a heat exchanger. A 1hp Baldor motor at 1750rpm works, but you want to make sure there is adequate cooling on the motor if using hot fluids. The caution about cavitation, running dry, need to prime, are true for both of these kinds of pumps. But both of these pumps are used for viscous applications in many industries, including oil, food processing, sanitation, etc. The wear we see does not seem to be on the impeller itself (a big hunk of stainless), but on the bearings, which do need to be maintained.

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20 hours ago, MichaelAtTCW said:

Conventional wisdom is that suspended solids will cause the impeller on a sanitary centrifugal pump to wear prematurely, and anything that restricts the inlet flow of a centrifugal pump risks causing cavitation, which will also cause premature impeller wear. The use of sanitary centrifugal pumps should generally be restricted to products with water-like viscosity (Skaalvenn's experience to the contrary).

The best solution for mash is either a flexible impeller pump like our Jabsco SQN 20 or SQN 50, or an RPD pump.

To be clear, I do wish I had a FIP pump as the centrifugal can be a bit tricky to work with.
Examples being:

  • Getting that last little bit out of the fermentation tank
  • Vortexing when draining a tank (including CIP re-circulation) due to pump speed
  • Getting an air bubble out of the pump head (I just learned a trick from a brewer to put a 3 way valve on the outlet to burp the air)
  • Not having the ability to blast out a plug in the line (this only happens when we pump out our spent grain to the farmer's truck which has been settling in tank for a few days).  I just hook an air line or water line to the end of the hose to blast it clear
  • One way pumping.  I'd like a reversible pump so I can just have a valved T for puimping in/out of the still without having to reconfigure hoses

I can't remember what I spent on the pump, but it was used from a brewery and with motor and cart I think it was only $400 to $700.  I'd really like a FIP, but I'd rather invest the extra money towards making even more money rather than solving a rather minor headache.  That being said, if anyone has a used one from a reputable brand who still provides parts and service, let me know.

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22 hours ago, Skaalvenn said:

To be clear, I do wish I had a FIP pump as the centrifugal can be a bit tricky to work with.

That's why we have both, and would recommend others do the same.

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On 6/27/2018 at 9:15 AM, Skaalvenn said:

That being said, if anyone has a used one from a reputable brand who still provides parts and service, let me know. 

I don't keep an eye on the used market, but I see a lot of old Jabscos come into our shop for a tune-up, and it normally doesn't take much to get the pump head in like-new condition—at most new seals, o-rings, and an impeller. I'd say a used one is a great investment if you can find one. Jabsco produces spare parts for their pumps going back 40+ years.

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1 hour ago, MichaelAtTCW said:

I don't keep an eye on the used market, but I see a lot of old Jabscos come into our shop for a tune-up, and it normally doesn't take much to get the pump head in like-new condition—at most new seals, o-rings, and an impeller. I'd say a used one is a great investment if you can find one. Jabsco produces spare parts for their pumps going back 40+ years.

Good to know.  Thanks!

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We’ve been very happy with our Waukesha pumps. They handle ANYTHING from feints to 30# mash. We’ve had chunks of metal jam the impellers and the pumps just kick off the VFD current limit and start right back up after the rotors are cleared. They are also reversible and require minimal upkeep. Using a good quality VFD is a must to protect the gearmotors from damage and to control speed and direction. 

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Good Morning,

We have a range of flexible impeller pumps from Inoxpa in Spain specifically for this purpose.

https://www.cpesystems.com/collections/flexible-impeller-pumps

inoxpa20-50_1024x1024.jpg?v=1524602848

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We use Jabsco flexible impeller pump heads on our pumps.  Jabsco invented the FIP tech back in the 1950s  The pump head is made in Great Britain, the cart is made here in the USA as is the the ex motor which is good for up to class 1 division 1 hazardous environments.    The Jabsco has reversing capabilities and the replacement impellers are only $86.00.  We use the same pump head as the SQN 20.   Our price is only $2,900.00

Pump-cart-20-GPM_1024x1024.jpg?v=1531253066

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On 6/25/2018 at 11:43 AM, bluestar said:

 In any case, ourselves we do and I would recommend placing the pump closer to the fermenter and farther from the still, and have an 8'+ hose to the still.

When pumping out of the fermenter, I agree.

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