Southernhighlander Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 On 6/27/2018 at 12:01 PM, Eud said: I haven't done distilling as a hobbyist. I've brewed beer as a hobbyist and can predict that I would enjoy distilling because the hobbies I enjoy also involved lots of learning, experimenting, and cool gear to acquire, build, and learn how to use. If it was legal to distill small amounts for personal consumption I'd likely just do that and be satisfied. If you can relocate to MO. It is legal to home distill up to 100 gallons per year per individual and up to 200 gallons per year per family here in MO under state law. The MO state alcohol tobacco control enforces state law concerning home distilling as do most if not all of the county sheriffs in MO. However, it is still illegal under federal law to home distill. I would never home distill, because I sell distillery equipment and I follow all federal laws concerning distilling. As far as starting a nano distillery, you can start as small as you like as long as you have another income that you can use to support yourself. In fact with no bond and a free federal permit you can start a nano distillery with very little up front cost as long as you think outside the box and do everything with cost in mind and use your imagination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eud Posted September 17, 2018 Author Share Posted September 17, 2018 8 hours ago, Southernhighlander said: As far as starting a nano distillery, you can start as small as you like as long as you have another income that you can use to support yourself. In fact with no bond and a free federal permit you can start a nano distillery with very little up front cost as long as you think outside the box and do everything with cost in mind and use your imagination. If you have the time, can you elaborate on this a bit? It's basically what I would want to do, and would enjoy getting set up, but I'm not sure where I should point my outside the box thinking. I guess I wouldn't need the bond because of the small quantities I'd be making, and I could get a federal DSP if I met the other requirements and had a legit commercial location with a lease? Is that right? If that's the case you may be getting an order from me sooner rather than later. ? I've made a distiller friend here locally and am going up this weekend to talk about the business. I took up her time at a farmers market a month ago, and I've done so much reading on this forum and others that I was able to talk shop with her a bit even though I haven't done it. They are starting to see some success on equipment about the size that I first posted about in the original post, but exactly what some predicted would happen to me has happened to them. Her husband's entire life, like 20 hours per day, is running that 100L spirit still in order to keep up with production on their 6 products. Victims of their success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenlyon Posted September 18, 2018 Share Posted September 18, 2018 I run what you might call a 'nano distillery'. I run the smallest distillery in Canada with a footprint of 950sf including the tasting room, a mechanical room and a tiny bathroom. I have one of Paul's 45G still/mash tuns, 2 Genios, a Redboot continuous (currently dormant) and a variety of other unholy stillage contraptions. I have a closed loop cooling system and about 500 G of fermentation tanks in various sizes. I operate seven days a week, even though I'm only open to the public for the weekends and I attend a select few local farmer's markets. It cost me close to $500k in cash and probably another $150k in my time to open my doors. I produce a basic vodka and a gin which evolves in mysterious ways every sixty bottles or so. (Damn, were did I put that recipe?) My only help is my wife, an equal partner and my daughter, part time. No matter how much I toil, I can only put out so much product. Not very much, I can tell you. So, being too nano is a careful decision - you really need to be clear on your goals and your growth projections. We thought we'd have a hard time getting any market, so we opened slowly with no advertising. Good thing we did, as now only a few months in, we're barely able to keep up with the demand and I turn green as I contemplate the impending Christmas season. Of course, the upside of all of the work - every time week look at the weekly take we smile. Our social standing is outta sight. We meet all kinds of great people - who are rich and think nothing of spending not only on the booze but a variety of other associated products we're selling. We can't wait to introduce new spirits, but they take time to develop, find the ingredients and then the paperwork etc. Right now it's eight o'clock and I'm tired and I need to create advertising for tomorrows newspaper deadline. Beats working for a living... 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seth0908 Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 On 9/17/2018 at 1:00 AM, Alaskan Spirits LLC said: Fun and exciting times. I have my Groupon set to start immediately upon opening, news story lined up, and Kickstarter around the corner. Im anxious to see outcomes and how everything falls together. In the end, I fell in love with our bottle. Glad I spent the money and created a custom mold. It allowed me to know the bottle was going to be unique, and have a custom feel. We have ALASKA PR%F embossed on the back, and BATCH907 on the bottom (which will be the name of a future spirit). Anyone have much experience with Facebook marketing? What worked/didnt work? Glad you are tasting your product, I bet it is exciting. I am in the beginning stages of the written plan, talking to vendors, etc. The way I am leaning is also to hire a distiller if I cannot bring on one of my very good friends (who I think will fit perfectly as a distiller - even better than I could see myself...) into the business with a salary and some equity to makeup for what he will lose by leaving his current employer. I currently have a career that pays well and if I work it out correctly give me half the year off in a rotation so I can be hands on as much as possible. I would love to hear about your groupon marketing and specifically what/how you plan to implement kickstarter. I do not know much about facebook, but from what I understand Instagram and Snapchat are the big ones with kids younger than me (31) these days so don't leave those out as well. Another idea I had whether I build new construction or upgrade a rental is how I could use the space to bring in some money or at least good marketing before I can start making products. That way the space doesn't feel just a big money pit. Good luck on your ventures from South Louisiana -Seth C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Creek Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 On 9/17/2018 at 11:18 PM, Glenlyon said: I run what you might call a 'nano distillery'. I run the smallest distillery in Canada with a footprint of 950sf including the tasting room, a mechanical room and a tiny bathroom. I have one of Paul's 45G still/mash tuns, 2 Genios, a Redboot continuous (currently dormant) and a variety of other unholy stillage contraptions. I have a closed loop cooling system and about 500 G of fermentation tanks in various sizes. I operate seven days a week, even though I'm only open to the public for the weekends and I attend a select few local farmer's markets. It cost me close to $500k in cash and probably another $150k in my time to open my doors. I produce a basic vodka and a gin which evolves in mysterious ways every sixty bottles or so. (Damn, were did I put that recipe?) My only help is my wife, an equal partner and my daughter, part time. No matter how much I toil, I can only put out so much product. Not very much, I can tell you. So, being too nano is a careful decision - you really need to be clear on your goals and your growth projections. We thought we'd have a hard time getting any market, so we opened slowly with no advertising. Good thing we did, as now only a few months in, we're barely able to keep up with the demand and I turn green as I contemplate the impending Christmas season. Of course, the upside of all of the work - every time week look at the weekly take we smile. Our social standing is outta sight. We meet all kinds of great people - who are rich and think nothing of spending not only on the booze but a variety of other associated products we're selling. We can't wait to introduce new spirits, but they take time to develop, find the ingredients and then the paperwork etc. Right now it's eight o'clock and I'm tired and I need to create advertising for tomorrows newspaper deadline. Beats working for a living... I would be interested in the closed loop system you describe. I have something I am about to put together for my 53 gal still using a tote and pump but am concerned about method to try and keep the temp of the water consistent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluefish_dist Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 I run a recirculated cooling system with 2 300 gal totes feeding a 125 gal still. It works fine if you only want to run every 3rd day. I have considered adding a radiator on the return line to help dump heat prior to going back into the totes. So far that has not been needed to meet demand. It does not keep a constant water temp, but I run a VM style still head so it's not all that critical. If running a CM, I think a radiator and then probably a small chiller would work better. Radiator to dump the majority of the heat and the chiller to keep a constant temp in the reservoir. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Creek Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 On 9/17/2018 at 11:18 PM, Glenlyon said: I run what you might call a 'nano distillery'. I run the smallest distillery in Canada with a footprint of 950sf including the tasting room, a mechanical room and a tiny bathroom. I have one of Paul's 45G still/mash tuns, 2 Genios, a Redboot continuous (currently dormant) and a variety of other unholy stillage contraptions. I have a closed loop cooling system and about 500 G of fermentation tanks in various sizes. I operate seven days a week, even though I'm only open to the public for the weekends and I attend a select few local farmer's markets. It cost me close to $500k in cash and probably another $150k in my time to open my doors. I produce a basic vodka and a gin which evolves in mysterious ways every sixty bottles or so. (Damn, were did I put that recipe?) My only help is my wife, an equal partner and my daughter, part time. No matter how much I toil, I can only put out so much product. Not very much, I can tell you. So, being too nano is a careful decision - you really need to be clear on your goals and your growth projections. We thought we'd have a hard time getting any market, so we opened slowly with no advertising. Good thing we did, as now only a few months in, we're barely able to keep up with the demand and I turn green as I contemplate the impending Christmas season. Of course, the upside of all of the work - every time week look at the weekly take we smile. Our social standing is outta sight. We meet all kinds of great people - who are rich and think nothing of spending not only on the booze but a variety of other associated products we're selling. We can't wait to introduce new spirits, but they take time to develop, find the ingredients and then the paperwork etc. Right now it's eight o'clock and I'm tired and I need to create advertising for tomorrows newspaper deadline. Beats working for a living... I would be interested in the closed loop system you describe. I have something I am about to put together for my 53 gal still using a tote and pump but am concerned about method to try and keep the temp of the water consistent. I was thinking about a radiator and even possibly a water cooler of some type in line. Glad to see I'm on the right track. Need to double my tote, lol. Thanks a lot! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenlyon Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 The way my closed loop system works is the coolant (a mix of water and 20% denatured ethanol) pumps continuously through all of my stills and my heat exchange. Once the hot water leaves the condenser or dephlugmator or exchange, it is sent through the tasting room floor to provide radiant heat before continuing under the distillery on the journey of hope out to a pond behind the distillery. The pond is roughly the dimensions of a normal household swimming pool. The water travels through 400' of 1" water pipe before returning to the distillery as cold water ready to repeat the trip. The water travels through the system at about four gallons a minute so the hot water leaving the stills really doesn't stand much of a chance staying warm for long. In fact, the system is so efficient, I can have everything running full tilt in the middle of summer with the pond half empty and it doesn't break a sweat. So, there is loads of room to grow. I can turn on or off any part of the system or re-route as required using a series of preset valves. The pump is automatic and will deliver less or more water depending on the demand created by the mix of open and closed valves. Close all the valves and the pump will stop. Open them all and the system runs full out. All the cooling pipe is neatly exposed on the wall feeding each part of the system and looks deceptively simple over all. I designed the system on paper and my plumber figured out the technical and functional aspects. Total cost about $5K CND. I do not use this system for cooling fermenters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenlyon Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 More of what to expect... After seven months of operation our little distillery has just come through our first Christmas season. After so many busy days, today seems very very quiet. For those considering the small distillery experience here are a few random thoughts that have been rummaging around my mind. Time flies... One of the things that has turned out to be very important for us is the ability to frequent the local farmer’s and crafter’s markets. So, way back in October all the markets we were booking seemed so far away, we didn’t give them a second thought. I couldn’t believe how fast they were on us. We worked flat out from early November through to Christmas eve and were behind all the way. We sold out several times and crawled across the finish line. Lesson - Pre-stock your Christmas season! You don’t want to be trying to produce last minute in the heat of battle! Ancillary products are important... While the beverages are selling well, we quickly discovered you want other things to sell as well. In our case we have honey from our bees. I’ve never sold so much honey! Now we have some other carefully curated products and they are starting to sell rather well. Lesson - give people things to buy and they will! But, make sure your products fit your story - and - your ability to consistently supply them. Once people get a taste for something, they expect it to be available . Quality matters... Even though my place is really out of the way, I have local competitors - I even find myself competing against distilleries in the nearby city of Vancouver. Our guests who have visited other distilleries during their travels, think nothing of discussing their experiences in front of you. You can bet when they are somewhere else, they are talking about you in return. What do they talk about? The quality of the comparable beverages and experiences hands down. So, its very important to deliver so that inevitable conversation reflects well on your products and experiences. Lesson - Quality over quantity is the way, especially, if you are a small operation. The customer’s experience is very important... I popped into one of my competitors and the servers seemed kinda morose, even though the general vibe seemed OK. But, I could clearly see the server’s weren't 100% in the game. Outside of buying their drinks, there was no way to meet the distiller or arrange a backstage tour. So, in the end there was nothing really special about their establishment. Lesson - You and your staff and your collective presentation matters at lot! Make sure everyone can answer the basic questions if the distiller isn’t around. Spirit drinkers/buyers are not the same as other consumers... When the beer drinkers show up, it only takes a moment before they are gone. Spirit drinkers on the other hand, want to know. Your story, history, art, the experience, cocktail ideas, they are keen. Lesson - Building a loyal audience and getting the juicy sales takes time and you have to relax into the moment, all the while knowing in the back of your mind you have to get that damn mash moving! Running a distillery is a lot of work... This has been said so many times! Why say it again? A lot of idealism comes through the door! I love the work and I wouldn’t trade it for another job. But, I’m also working 10 - 12 hours a day, everyday and it does wear. Lesson - Expect to work hard but strive to find a better work / life balance as soon as possible into the lifestyle. If possible. Happy new year. Cheers, Glen 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silk City Distillers Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 Regarding the ancillary products. We did a collaboration with a local farmer, we aged his maple syrup in our bourbon barrels. We sold it under our brand/label. While it was a great seller, selling hundreds of bottles over the course of two weeks, the biggest benefit was the draw and exposure from via social media, we immediately attracted a customer base who wouldn't have normally walked in the door, and it didn't cannibalize other product sales. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eud Posted January 9, 2019 Author Share Posted January 9, 2019 Glen, Thanks for coming back here with updates. I am really enjoying reading them. I'm helping out a local small distiller here from time to time to get a feel for the work involved. I'm asking him to have me do the grunt work (cleaning and moving heavy stuff around) and peppering him with questions about what his hard parts are. One thing that struck me as I was standing there waiting for the mash to heat was looking at his stacks of filled barrels and doing the math in my head for how much resources he had tied up in material cost, utilities, and time in those barrels. I was also struck by how valuable it would be to have the cash up front to spend to make things run efficiently so you're not killing yourself to keep the production going or spending lots of time every day waiting around for things to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenlyon Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 Thank you. Yes, your observations are correct - as the barrels stack up quickly and so does the investment within. Each barrel is worth a considerable sum in its realizable value and in its cost to produce. That cost is even higher than you think, because it also includes the mistakes made along the way. You can't plan for those mistakes in the business plan other than defining them vaguely as 'contingency' because you never know what's going to bite you. It is great to have all the cash up front to pay for all that and the infrastructure, etc., thus making the journey easier. However, there are some (as I've discovered) unseen challenges to that. We went that route and paid for everything up front so our business would have a low overhead. Ha! Lesson here - operating capital is as important upfront as the cost of buying the still or whatever. Predictably, by the time we opened, we were forced to get a line of credit and with the operating expenses being what they are, we are quickly gobbling it up at an alarming rate. In the winter, nobody buys craft booze, so expect very low cash flow from January to April. Thank goodness we do have a low overhead though. I would not want to be covering big equipment loans right now. Before you leave the confines of the distillery you are lending a hand at, make sure you spend more time with the official paperwork than you do with the distilling. Although, seemingly innocent at the beginning, paperwork quickly snowballs into a blizzard of unhappiness. (He says bleakly looking at spending the day resolving seven months of paperwork for year end requirements. OMG!!!!) It gets harder when all those barrels start to stack up - did I mention the mistakes? I'll bet every single distiller here has paid more in taxes then intended somewhere along the way. Most of the time, you just have to eat it and hope you don't make that mistake again. Well, I can procrastinate no longer, where is that snow shovel? Must...keep...going.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuckyTiger Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 Like the snow shovel comment. There is a lot of heavy snow In Europe right now. Lucky to be in Hawaii. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard1 Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 Just had a heat wave this side .... Almost 40 deg C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlickFloss Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 Competition is really tight for small guys, you're gonna need to really be a craftsman to be competitive with this business model because people just down swoon over the small guys with not a pretty space as much as they do the real polished and aesthetically designed places. Im not trying to talk shit, it's just a fact. Look at who is selling equipment because they're offline. Its all smaller sized equipment in unpolished places. I want you to do well, but you gotta understand there's much more to this business then just making good products. You need to make stellar products, and make people want to buy them while at the same time making it available for them in the market place while protecting your margins to continue production. This industry is not a side hustle industry. You have to commit and fucking flourish or you will fail. Good luck. Reach out for advice wherever you can. Be a sponge. A lot of newbies around here spend time telling people what they're going to do.......... it's wise to ask what you should. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenlyon Posted May 9, 2019 Share Posted May 9, 2019 It’s a sunny quiet at the distillery this morning. Shortly, I’m off to do a spirit run and proof gin. Here are some random thoughts about what to expect as we approach our first year in operation... Still Sizing... Debate on this topic rages and as someone who has several smaller stills, I tend to favour that strategy. However, if I were to do it again, I would start with bigger equipment. Further on Equipment... Even top of the line equipment can wear out astonishingly quickly. Budget for spare parts and repair people. Also expect to upgrade key elements as you grow, there always seems to be something else you need. Leasing vs Buying I’ve done both and there are convincing arguments either way. The more monthly payments you have the harder the long cold winter. Accept debt very reluctantly. Costs of Running Your Distillery... We are always thrilled when we add up the monthly take and happy we’re trending in the right direction. However, I’m always equally dismayed at the high operating costs to get through the month. Prepare for at least two years of experience before you’ll be able to extract profits. Home Distillers... We get lots of home distillers come through our place. They are generally nice people and love to talk, however they tend to be poor customers. Worse yet, one of them is now operating an illegal operation somewhere nearby. Hmmm, what to do? Your Distillery Will Bite... Yep, you are extremely pleased with your operation. You’ve taken all precautions - everyone is well trained. You’ve got it in the bag, nothing to worry about. Nothing except, human nature and the unknown. Pay attention or the dog will bite - second degree burns on my hands and legs, is a solid reminder. Keeping Up... ‘Sold out’ is a terrible phrase to utter as we have discovered. Expect way more demand than you can possibly imagine. Our season has only just begun and we’ve already sold most of our pre planned/produced summer stockpile. We hardly noticed it disappear and when we went to prepare for this weekend (expected to be extremely busy) the pile was depressingly small. And Finally, Awards... We unexpectedly won a small but vital audience choice award for one of our products. Great for the ego and who doesn't want to win an award. But, it caused a lot of stress and even depression for a lot of different reasons - so be aware. Right then - off to work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard1 Posted May 9, 2019 Share Posted May 9, 2019 know the feeling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamOVD Posted May 9, 2019 Share Posted May 9, 2019 1 hour ago, Glenlyon said: We unexpectedly won a small but vital audience choice award for one of our products. Great for the ego and who doesn't want to win an award. But, it caused a lot of stress and even depression for a lot of different reasons - so be aware. Due to increased demand? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hudson bay distillers Posted May 9, 2019 Share Posted May 9, 2019 What were seeing alot of is distilleries that started to small ,then realise they can't produce enough to keep the place in operation . Basically hobby sized production with commercial size bills . Lots of the bills dont depend on production some bills are jus set in stone no matter how big you . Now we're seeing some outfits step up to bat and get bigger equipment to continue producing good product in a volume that pays the bills . However were also seeing most of them just switching to gns and fuel alcohol from ethanol plants and flooding the country with shitty flavoured vodka . This does nothing but hurt the industry as people are not going to try many hand crafted products if the ones they try tastes like flavoured boat gas . In my opinion one needs to shoot for a minimum of mashing 300 gallons a day to keep in business for any length of time . But that's jus my shitty opinion lol Tim 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eud Posted May 9, 2019 Author Share Posted May 9, 2019 Thanks for continuing to contribute to this thread. I've had a lot of time to read and a lot of time to visit local distillers and even some time to provide free labor. I asked for the unpleasant parts so I could get a realistic idea. One day I was moving, weighing, lifting, and carefully pouring (to avoid dough ball creation) 50 pound bags of crushed rye into their 400g combo mash tun/stripping still while trying to ignore the uncomfortably warm steam coming out the hole. Then later in the week I got inside to powerwash, scrape, and clean it all out after stripping. They're a small and very lean shop, very focused on using labor to overcome lack of capital. They're making nice stuff though, and I really hope they do well in the long term. They're still in the phase where they're waiting on things to age to be really good, but even the "shortcut" stuff is turning out good, so I think they're on the right track. Point of that story is that now I know better the full range of things I'd need to add in to a plan to get set up. Just some things I hadn't figured on was: water filtration, grain crushers and augers, crash cooling, lifting equipment (for gravity siphons and just moving stuff around), scales, pumps for alcohol, pumps for solids, liquid removal for spent grain (assuming you can find someone to take it as feed), and lots of other random stuff that would definitely add up. Having seen it, I think I wouldn't go smaller than a mash tun and stripping still that can fill a standard 53 gallon barrel, which would probably be around 600g mash tun/fermenter/stripper combo and maybe a couple of 100g spirit stills. That gets me a barrel a week of product, then I'd up production later by adding fermenters and a dedicated stripping still, so I'd want to make sure that I had a the ability to heat and cool that extra equipment from the start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HedgeBird Posted May 10, 2019 Share Posted May 10, 2019 On 10/9/2018 at 9:42 PM, Glenlyon said: The pump is automatic and will deliver less or more water depending on the demand created by the mix of open and closed valves. Close all the valves and the pump will stop. Open them all and the system runs full out. Do you mind sharing what kind of pump you are using? We are using a pretty standard well pump to circulate our cooling water, so its kicks on/off when you open/close valves but it sounds like your pump may throttle itself to some extent? I think ours is just on or off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenlyon Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 Sorry for the delay in responding. Were having a busy weekend. The pump is a GRUNDFOS ALPHA AUTO ADAPT 15-55F/CC. It does regulate itself depending on demand - its been a great system so far. On 5/9/2019 at 1:05 PM, Hudson bay distillers said: In my opinion one needs to shoot for a minimum of mashing 300 gallons a day to keep in business for any length of time . Maybe. It depends on your business. We started small and are growing quickly based on demand. I have competitors who started much, much bigger and their product is sitting on the shelf. So, when we do grow again next year, we know exactly what we're getting into. No GNS for us. Quality over quantity all the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenlyon Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 Don't forget - if you are filling a 600G mash tun - especially on a regular basis, you are creating shitloads of spent mash - which, will need to be disposed of. To start, this probably won't be a huge problem, but as time passes and your farmers won't take anymore of your grain, the city doesn't want it and will charge you if they can, the dump charges ongoing fees, etc. - this can soon pile up to be a substantial issue that few people really think about until they are faced with the reality. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silk City Distillers Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 300/600g is also well into forklift territory. Not only do you need the forklift, you need a building big enough, with enough floor loading capacity, to operate the forklift. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hammer Spring Distillers Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 On 5/12/2019 at 8:35 AM, Glenlyon said: Sorry for the delay in responding. Were having a busy weekend. The pump is a GRUNDFOS ALPHA AUTO ADAPT 15-55F/CC. It does regulate itself depending on demand - its been a great system so far. Maybe. It depends on your business. We started small and are growing quickly based on demand. I have competitors who started much, much bigger and their product is sitting on the shelf. So, when we do grow again next year, we know exactly what we're getting into. No GNS for us. Quality over quantity all the way. We started (and still are) small (100 gallon). If we mashed 300 gallons per day, we'd have outgrown our space in a week because as a start-up, you're never going to sell that much, no matter what spirit you make. If you're barreling it, you'd better have a million square feet of rick house that you can float the rent on for the first few years before you sell anything because your barrels are going to pile up fast. Distribution in a control state is a real struggle and competing against national brands is nearly impossible. Unsurprisingly, particularly with vodka, most consumers are happy enough with a $6 plastic bottle of Bartons and just laugh at a $25 bottle of true craft, potato vodka. Even many of your local shops are sourcing and/or rectifying so you can't compete with that either. So, in addition to all the things - you'd better be (or have) a marketing genius. For what it's worth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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