Allan

Has anyone bought a dedicated ice machine / ice maker for their distillery tasting room, or is everyone basically using a standard household refrigerator/freezer with an ice maker? If you bought a dedicated ice maker, what size did you get? Any advice? Thanks, AD

@dhdunbar ... far more info than I wanted to read, but very glad you took the time to offer it. Many thanks.

CFR states that any spirits not used for the intended purpose (a winery's only legally allowable intended purpose for receiving of spirits is for wine fortification) must be "removed or destroyed". IRC agent agreed that there's no prescribed means/method for a winery to "remove or destroy" spirits to begin with, so the code needs work (there's no "pathway" prescribed for wineries to get rid of spirits, even as discussed above, sending to a DSP). So it's a big gray area.

Interesting, thanks for taking the time to link + copy/paste. I'll give the NaOH a shot in a small volume on my rotary evaporator and let you know what the outcome is. Any ideas for dosage trials?

So I tried the sodium bicard treatment in some mason jars with positive results and figured what the heck - lets give it a whirl. I was working with a "hearts" cut taken from 190 proof grape spirit, but distilled on only 5 plate column so for a "hearts" cut it was headier than Vodka should be. This "hearts cut" was diluted to 100 proof, loaded about 40 gallons into the still, tossed in about 6g/l (about half a pound in all ... too much!?) and assuming it would just precipitate out when it reaches boiling - didn't expect much ethyl acetate -> ethanol conversion for sure but figured 'hey whats the worst that could happen'...and fired the still up without waiting...About 3 hours into the run I noticed the wash had turned to a dark amber (nasty dark urine?) color. Everything coming out had that minty smell and chemical taste, the entire run, start to finish. Cutting collected distillate and re-running with more heads cuts reduced it, showed it to be most strong in the heads, but didn't "fix" the problem. Not sure what to do now. Considering sending it off to a lab for GCMS to figure out what the heck is in it giving off that smell...but given that I don't know *exactly* what I'm looking for, I'll need to get some advice as to what it "might" be so I can order the right panel. Anyone have any ideas what that smell is coming from before I do - or better yet - how the heck to get rid of it?

*Edit: I stand corrected, whiskey systems does offer a $150 entry level. Have yet to inquire about what it includes, happy to report my findings back. I'm currently a month into Hoochware. We're a winery that just added a DSP. I handled IT at the winery, and after about 10 years of growth and the "software battles" to meet it, I can say that the distilling industry looks like the wine industry from about 5-10 years ago: Limited options; expensive; programs with "ideal feature sets" are very enterprise/ERP focused/priced; most options do a lot of what you may need - and quite a bit of what you don't; most options are about 10 years behind the rest of the world in the areas of UI/framework. I want a piece of software which is cloud-based, regularly developed/updated, and packaged in tiers which allow me to choose the level of feature sets that I require (and skip those that I don't). While some options are tier based, it's a far cry from feasible or accurately targeting the features I need. Granted, I'm unique in that: we're based in our wine cellar so I don't need all the fermentation tracking; we're 100% grape-based, and 99% of "grain operations management" tools are irrelevant; targeting 2-5 barrels/year of aged product in the next few years, "barrel management" is completely unnecessary;we're a control state so my startup phase can only take advantage of limited "sales force" features and account management since I primarily am only able to sell to a single wholesale account at first. Having said all that, I've looked at the following table, and Hoochware is the only one with a "lower price" and "bigger feature set" which touches on the cloud-based, modern ui, and constantly updated highlights that I'm seeking. Summary: no software is ever a silver bullet in any industry, and is always going to cost more than you want to pay. But for the right system, I'll pay what I need to - it's not ALL about the price, because like folks have noted, you can't always just put a price on your time. At this stage, the options are extremely limited and nothing is "totally" right...but from my experience thus far, I've got high hopes for Hoochware and it's working out great right now. Hope this helps. Company Website Target Likely Monthly DRAMS http://www.drams-software.com/brandy Enterprise Quote HOOCHWARE https://www.hoochware.com/ 199, no contract, 3 months free trial, no setup/termination fee ShipComplaint http://www-archive.shipcompliant.com/pricing 500 Foundations by American Spirits Exchange http://americanspiritsltd.com/services/distilled-spirits-foundations/ 500 Whiskey Systems https://www.whiskeysystems.com/WSpricing.html every level through ERP $150-$350 DistilliTrak http://distillitrak.com/ Low Level $75 for lifetime Mountain Moonshine ABS http://mountainmoonshine.com/alcoholblendingsoftware/orderinginformation.html Anybody $175 one time Stillhouse http://www.stillhousesolutions.com/pricing.html 375 Ospirits (orchestratred spirits) ERP 650

Thank you @bluestar For future reference, do you recall which part/where in the CFR I can review that verbiage? I must be missing it as I keep scanning through, haven't had time recently for another thorough "top to bottom" re-read of it :/

My apologies for the "basic" question here, and maybe I just need some more sleep and I'm over thinking it...but I suddenly couldn't remember the answer and hoping someone might gently remind me? : ) When distilling brandy from grape, if you hit 170+ at any point during the run, does that necessarily change the type/class designation to "Neutral Brandy" (and now, a mingled spirit/DSS with the rest of the "brandy" under 170 in the run)....or does it only matter what the final proof is of that particular run (so long as the final collected spirit is under 170, it's still Brandy...?) Thanks in advance, AD

Says you can't receive DM..This still available?

Thanks - you're exactly correct. Spoke with TTB this morning, and they confirmed that because there's no way to submit an application for it, we need to go by BW regs and submit it on line 7. She said there was no need to make remarks, but advised that to cover my butt in case of an audit I should note on the DSP TIB records that I called the NRC and they advised that this was the only way to do it (and that the regs require a BW to get rid of any spirits which are no longer going to be used for intended purpose on original TIB/reception). Thanks for the help! -AD

Anyone have experience with / is it possible to transfer spirits FROM a bonded winery TO a DSP? We're a winery with unused grape spirits that were acquired for wine fortification FROM a DSP. We've added a DSP, and would like to transfer the brandy to our DSP for further rectification, blending, etc. Can't find a pathway/paperwork for this, was told at one point it was possible. Can anyone guide me through the required steps/docs? Thanks in advance.

We applied 9/22/2016. DSP received 03/27/2017 186 days.