Foreshot

Christopher Thiemann, Distilled Spirits Program Manager, Regulations and Rulings Divisions Alcohol and Tobacco Tax and Trade Bureau explains where the project came from, and how best to give feedback to the TTB. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDegU_6H-54

Paul - have you built one before? Do you understand the plumbing and stuff?

I forgot about that - I'll look it up. Thanks! I want to build a small version first to figure out how to make it better. I'll hit you up for the full scale version and how to automate it a bit. Like you said it's an old design. I'm reading all the stuff @bostonapothecary is writing about beta-Damascenone, esters and other aromatic compounds. I want to figure out how to max out the yield of those.

As the title suggests I want to build a 3 chamber still. We were visiting one of the other local places and they mentioned wanting to build one. I said I would help. I know a tiny bit about them. Anyone here up on how they work/design? I know Leopold has one, but that's all I know of currently working systems. I've seen some images but nothing with usable info like how the feeds work or info like that.

Yes. Tails never make it up the column so that part happens naturally. On a still you use for a finished spirit you would pick a plate that has the flavor profile you want and take off from there - aka the take off plate. You design the still so you have a take off rate that matches the replenishment rate and the column will stay in equilibrium. Various designs out there, some you can have more than one take off plate, some you adjust the column dynamics to make changes to the output ABV. The issue is that you will always have at least a trace of heads in it. Think of it like old school moonshining - each plate is like a jar, you pick the jars (plates) that you like and mix that in for a finished product. https://www.alcademics.com/2013/07/how-column-distillation-works-bourbon-edition.html http://cocktailchem.blogspot.com/2019/01/the-physics-of-batch-column-stills-and.html

Some part of it may be from Diacetyl. You can get that from short fermentation cycles. Yeast will create diacetyl during growth and process it once it's done. https://beersensoryscience.wordpress.com/2010/11/18/diacetyl-1/ <-- It's a little deeper than you need. If you google Diacetyl you can see more info. I'm not sure what part muck would play in it. It could be something totally different than diacetyl.

Thanks. As a side note I'm stealing your "dining room" idea as I really like it. I have an odd offshoot off the main tasting room and I though I could do the same there.

So aside from just being interesting, I posted this for people in the planning stages of their business. If you have not thought of the tourism aspect of your business you should. Having a distribution only business model is going to be increasingly difficult in the future. With more and more distilleries opening winning your backyard is going to be really tough unless you have some very loyal customers. National distribution is going to be even harder. The local brands are going to choke out most of the biggest non-local players. Right now we're starting to see a trend of large bev-alcohol companies buying portions of small/medium size craft companies for the sole purpose of distributing them. I see this trend growing to the point that without a big backer you're unlikely to be able to grow beyond your region without a ton of $$$. So anything you can do to make you business more tourist friendly is going to help you out a lot. Being "Instagram Friendly" is part of that. I'm building out my space with specific areas that serve no purpose other than how well it will look on social media. It's not something I want to spend money on but it's unfortunately part of the game. https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/instagrammability-holiday-factor-millenials-holiday-destination-choosing-travel-social-media-photos-a7648706.html https://www.cbsnews.com/news/millennials-are-skipping-out-on-travel-destinations-that-arent-instagrammable/ https://www.smartinsights.com/social-media-marketing/instagram-marketing/how-to-leverage-instagrammability-for-your-brand/

http://imbibemagazine.com/american-distilleries/

There are fed and local rules. What state are you in?

https://homedistiller.org/wiki/index.php/Saponification - Technical background, but don't think it applies to you. I've never read/heard of this happening pre/during distillation. Saponification requires alkaline chemicals to happen. Normally that's a post distillation issue. If you're in the hearts and you suddenly get this then there was something likely with the ferment or in the hoses as you transferred the mash. What is your cleaning/sanitation protocol? Any chance that something soapy got in the lines? Did you do something different for this ferment or cleaning? Something in the water sounds plausible. Maybe the water source had issues that day? If you rely on municipal water maybe call them and ask? They do sometime add chemicals to address issues. Root cause analysis - probably a little deep for what you need but might help more quickly identify the issue and develop an action plan to fix it.* https://des.wa.gov/services/risk-management/about-risk-management/enterprise-risk-management/root-cause-analysis https://www.isixsigma.com/tools-templates/cause-effect/determine-root-cause-5-whys/ * Sorry for the biz speak, it's been pounded into my head for years.

I'm a voracious reader and nothing I've found really broaches that subject well at all. Theory of what happens, descriptions, pictures yes, yet nothing that I would consider practical. If anyone could recommend a book then I'd buy it. Some of the best practical books are at ADI's http://whitemulepress.com/ http://whitemulepress.com/?product=fundamentals-of-distillery-practice <- a little older but covers tons of good to have info. Not White Mule but a super awesome book: https://www.amazon.com/Whisky-Technology-Production-Inge-Russell/dp/0124017355 Blah, that's what this place is for. I wished people asked more. It's learning by proxy.

Thanks, that's great advice. We're just starting on the gin journey so that is very helpful.

First up - I'm sorry he went off on you like that. That wasn't cool on his part. Just because you don't understand it doesn't mean something is bad. I'm glad you took it well. I'm with you there. I was wondering if the reviewer just didn't understand what he was tasting. This is the thing I am worried about as I am pursuing a similar "dirtier" type of flavor profile. I'm always up for sampling. I'll email you, thanks!

Thanks @Northern Waters, I'll try that.

Thanks for the offer Captn, I appreciate it. I was able to find some. I should be getting it today to try out. I am trying all the lemon herbs I can to see what works best. I got lemon grass and I really like the aromatics it's giving off. I didn't try it alone so I can't tell but something in the mix is a little too earthy for what I want through. We'll see what verbena and lemon balm do. This time I am doing them all separately to see what secondary notes I get off of them.

aroma or flavor wise? I'm looking mostly for aroma.

And just like that I find it. https://www.starwest-botanicals.com/category/lemon-verbena-leaf/ Side vent: Why is shipping for botanicals SO EXPENSIVE? Seriously, it's 2-3x what it should be. I got 5 lbs of stuff from Herbo and it was $33. 2 lbs from Starwest is $14. Why???? It's stupid.

Also any advice for using...

I can't find it anywhere. I want to buy ~ 1/2 to 1 lbs to try it out for gin/amari. Everyone says they are out until April. Anyone have some extra I can buy? Thanks in advance.

That's what I wasn't understanding. Juniper is on the extract/oil list, but not the spice/botanical list. So I need to do something extra if I'm not using the extract? I'm not enjoying this specific rabbit hole of the distilling regs.

This is my first foray into the GRAS list. I would appreciate a little guidance on this. So I've found a couple "GRAS" lists. I want to make sure I get this right: PART 182—SUBSTANCES GENERALLY RECOGNIZED AS SAFE Has a section called: 182.20 Essential oils, oleoresins (solvent-free), and natural extractives (including distillates). For instance Angelica root is on that list. So I'm free to use it in gin without any extra dispensation from the TTB/FDA? I just include it on the formula and all's good? The reason I ask is that there is also a section: PART 184—DIRECT FOOD SUBSTANCES AFFIRMED AS GENERALLY RECOGNIZED AS SAFE It looks more like a list of additive chemicals. So I should not be concerned as it doesn't really apply, yes? Sorry for the rather sophomoric question, just want to make sure I do this right and not miss something. I don't want to start making something then realize I have to dump it because I screwed up a simple detail. Thanks!

https://abc13.com/worker-with-blender-sparks-blast-at-vodka-distillery/2609609/

Also: https://www.theedgesingapore.com/native-ad-opx-lifestyle/beauty-blending

Not the article you requested, but something interesting none the less: https://www.womenscocktailcollective.com/