Hammer Spring Distillers

We got the same contact from these guys, and they said a similar thing. We are also a very small distillery with no out-of-state distribution currently. It seemed unlikely to us that it was a good fit for us. Here's the text of the initial contact: We work directly with major film and TV studios. And we had a production coordinator send me some still photo’s of your Hammer Spring spirits. There is a film studio that needs premium whiskey and gin for multiple scenes of an upcoming film and Hammer Spring Distillers fits perfectly for what the production wants. Your product has been enthusiastically approved and we'd like to discuss showcasing your products in the film. I also work with a few major TV shows where we could showcase your products. This is very sensitive information as it involves the disclosure of projects not yet filmed/aired. Thanks. The guy did call and chat, and sent us a proposal, but we decided it wasn't for us.

Here's the straight dope from the TTB on the matter of making Bitters, with the specialist's contact info at the end. Here's my original question: Hello TTB, thank you for always answering our questions! Our DSP UT-20014 (Hammer Spring Distillers) is interested in the process of manufacturing Cocktail Bitters. I know there are different regulations for non-beverage products, and we are under the impression that this is prohibited in our bonded space. Assuming this, we are acquiring the use of a commissary kitchen to mix/blend/bottle, etc. Our question is generally regarding how to transfer the alcohol from the bonded space to the commissary kitchen without a separate DSP for the kitchen? We would like to support our Bitters d.b.a. with our own spirit base, but we don't want to create packaging for it and otherwise sell it retail (listing through the State, etc). I think this is covered under "Industrial manufacturing", but am not familiar with the specifics of it. How is this generally done? I looked for information on this process, but quickly got bogged down in sections of code that were irrelevant to what I was after and/or endlessly circular in nature, etc. Could you give me a link or general description of the process to get us started? Here's the response: Hi Mr. Bernier, Thank you for your question, we’re happy you reached out. TTB may consider a bitters product to be an alcohol beverage or a nonbeverage product, depending on the product’s formula and whether or not it is determined to be fit or unfit for beverage purposes (27 CFR 19.5). According to 27 CFR 19.5(b), ” Bitters, patent medicines, and similar alcoholic preparations that are fit for beverage purposes, although held out as having certain medicinal properties, are also alcoholic beverages. These products are subject to the provisions of this part [part 19] and must be manufactured on the bonded premises of a distilled spirits plant.” TTB will first need to determine whether your bitters product is fit for beverage purposes (and would be treated as an alcohol beverage product) or unfit for beverage purposes (in which case it would be treated as a nonbeverage product). You will need to submit a formula for your product to TTB (Form TTB F 5154.1), which you can do via FONL. For more information on formula issues related to nonbeverage drawback, see TTB’s drawback tutorial on our website. Your product’s formula will be evaluated by TTB’s Nonbeverage Products Lab (NPL) to determine whether it is an eligible nonbeverage product. Manufacturers of nonbeverage products using taxpaid distilled spirits may be eligible for “drawback” of all but $1.00 per proof gallon of the excise tax paid on the distilled spirits they use in the manufacturing products that are unfit for beverage purposes. If you are a DSP and intend to manufacture a nonbeverage product such as nonbeverage bitters there are a few things to keep in mind. First, if you are producing spirits for an industrial purpose (such as manufacturing a nonbeverage product), then you will need to obtain an operating permit under 27 CFR 19.91 in addition to your exiting beverage DSP permit. I believe you may amend your permit to add industrial operations in Permits Online. As a DSP manufacturing a nonbeverage product, you also need to be aware of 27 CFR 19.344, which states that in order to be eligible for drawback, flavors many not be manufactured on the bonded premises of a DSP. In order to manufacture nonbeverage products eligible for drawback (see definition of “eligible flavors” in 27 CFR 19.1) on your DSP premises you will need to contact the National Revenue Center (NRC) to identify a portion of your non-bonded premises specifically for the manufacture of nonbeverage products (see 27 CFR 19.143(a)(4)). Alternately, you may use a facility that is entirely separate from your DSP premises (such as the commissary kitchen you mentioned in your e-mail) to manufacture the nonbeverage product (this would be the MNBP premises covered under 27 CFR part 17 for TTB’s purposes). As mentioned above, if you are manufacturing nonbeverage bitters, this would have to be done with taxpaid distilled spirits. As far as transferring the alcohol from your DSP to the MNBP premises, the spirits could be withdrawn taxpaid in bulk from your DSP for transfer directly to the MNBP premises (see 27 CFR 1.95) for use to manufacture nonbeverage bitters. As an MNBP you would then file claims for drawback with TTB for the excise tax paid on the spirits used in the manufacture of the bitters. See 27 CFR part 17 (specifically Subpart G) for more information on how to register as an MNBP and submit claims for drawback. Please feel free to reach out if you need further clarification. Best regards, Christopher A. Forster-Smith, Ph.D. Regulations Specialist, Regulations and Rulings Division Alcohol and Tobacco Tax and Trade Bureau (TTB) Department of the Treasury 1310 G Street NW, Suite 400 Washington DC 20005 Phone: (202) 453-2150 E-mail: christopher.forster-smith@ttb.gov

We're not fermenting the nectarines - per the OP, we're adding already high-proof distilled spirits to the crushed fruit to extract the flavor. Now trying to get all the fruit micro-floaties out of it. I've made wine (at home) before, and clarified it with chitosan that came in a kit. I'd rather not use that (because, ew!), but want something that will drop all the particulates out of the solution.

Dehner Distillery, Interesting. Any idea how many gallons of vodka you pass through how many pounds of carbon before you change out the carbon? Also - unrelated to this thread but something I've observed, and just started researching is the exothermic reaction that occurs when 190 proof is passed through [dry] activated carbon. Something about Gibbs Energy of Adsorption and the enthalpy of the ethanol. Has anyone gone down the rabbit hole on this to learn what is actually happening to the ethanol after that much energy is changing hands with the carbon?

Hi folks, We were gifted a bunch of nectarines which we crushed and then infused with vodka. We've been letting the infusion sit for a couple of weeks, but the super-fine pulp has only dropped to about the midpoint of the 6-gallon carboys and doesn't seem to be dropping any further. Someone said "Pectic Enzyme" would clear this out and settle it all to the bottom. Does anyone else have experience with getting fruit infusions to clear? JP

We use 'zero-water' for just about everything, so we don't get any mineral build up. We ferment in the tun and only use enough nutrient to keep the yeast happy and haven't had a problem with any left overs mucking things up. It's fairly small so-to-speak (100 gallons) and all the ports are tri-clamp, so I pull them all out to clean it each time to avoid any crud hiding in the ports. Generally tho, the Ryobi power washer has been the right tool for the job - we bought some PBW after it was recommended earlier in this thread, but haven't even had to use it yet.

Pressure washer for the MFW!! That made quick work of that! Thanks for the suggestion - if you're ever in Salt Lake City, drop by, I'll buy you a shot!

People have copper mash tuns!?

That's an excellent idea! I even have one of those already!

Great tip, thanks! We'll give it a try!

We have a 100 gallon jacketed mash tun, with a cooling coil looping around the inside. We do potato vodka, and a corn/rye/wheat bourbon. After each run, we spray it out with hot water, then spray it aggressively with StarSan solution. Can't ever really get all the crud out of the nooks and crannies - every once in a while we have to take the whole dang thing apart, motor off, coil out, etc. climb in and scrub the bejeezus out of it by hand. There's got to be a better way? Is there?

Is this "the rum thread" or is it happening somewhere else? Hammer Spring is 2+ years in with potato vodka, and a tremendously successful gin and just a few months away from cracking our first bourbon barrel we started a while back. Last summer I did a one-off batch of rum, and the silver version wasn't very good (in my opinion), but after a while in a 15-gal re-purposed whiskey barrel it turned out alright. We sold all 75 bottles in a few weeks. Now I've done another rum that I'm going to experiment with a re-charred barrel (of my own doing, boy that was fun!!), just for kicks. But I'm going to have about 10 gallons of silver rum left after I fill the barrel and I'd like to try a dark, like a black-strap rum, and maybe a spiced versions. What the heck goes into a dark rum? Do you just add molasses, or other stuff? I've heard nightmarish stories about "dunder" and other atrocities that supposedly go into it that seem more fit for a Jules Verne story... any advice, or links? Cheers! JP

Adam, this post has been a lifesaver!! We have the Mori-Tem, whatever, knockoff - and I didn't know you could adjust the depth of the filler tip by rotating the purple thing! This little tip now makes our life infinitely easier!!

I'm curious if there's any type of chart out there for water displacement on various grains. I understand it will/may vary somewhat on the grind, but generally speaking. If I put X pounds of milled grains in my mash tun, and fill it the rest of the way up with water... how much water actually went in there, by percentage? Sugar is a known variable, but does anyone have numbers for this on corn or other grains? My very rough guess is that for 250 lbs of milled corn, I'll add about 75 gallons of water to a 100 gallon mash tun to fill it up. Anyone else ever calculate this before?

We're just starting with corn (2 years in with potatoes, and making great vodka from them!). We buy flaked (pre gelatinized) corn, and mill it to a flour just a fair bit finer than corn meal, but not all the way to bread flour. We have a jacketed mash tun, and use Alpha, Beta, and Bioglucanase enzymes (no malted grains). We're getting pretty consistent Specific Gravity of 1.08 (10.4% potential alcohol). We also have a jacketed still, and distill on the grain. Take everyone's advice about not trying to lauter corn - you'll die trying, and it won't benefit you much (unless you have a $20k centrifuge separator).

I think I'm too far into the ferment on this round - but I'll try it on the next go Thanks for the feedback!

I've never heard of putting bg in after fermentation starts... is that what you meant? Or did you mean leave it at room temperature for 3 days before fermenting <yikes!>

Yea, not much else I can do at this point with it. I pitched some yeast, we'll see how she does - thanks for the follow up!

Just as an experiment, I tried a 100% wheat mash (100 gallons of it). I milled 200 lbs of hard red wheat kernels and 50 lbs of malted wheat into the typical flour/grist (1:4 malt ratio. Malter said wheat had a DP of around 140'ish). To the cold water I added 100 mL of bioglucanase, and 10 mL Fermcap-S, and 300 mL of Amylo-300, slowly brought it up to 150 as I added the grist <edit: forgot to mention I adjusted the pH to 5.2>, and held it there for an hour or so. It looked, smelled great, tasted sweet, was plenty sticky when rubbed between fingers, etc - all the things were great. Even the specific gravity showed 1.085 (about 20 brix). All signs pointed to a successful mash, but It failed the iodine/starch test ... so I let it sit (at 150F) for a while longer... still black. I let it sit overnight at 150F (all the time slowly agitating to keep it consistent). In the morning, still black. Around noon the 2nd day I added 3.5 oz alpha amylase (dry), nothing, turned up the heat to 165F, still black iodine. Any thoughts on why it might not fully convert? JP.

We started (and still are) small (100 gallon). If we mashed 300 gallons per day, we'd have outgrown our space in a week because as a start-up, you're never going to sell that much, no matter what spirit you make. If you're barreling it, you'd better have a million square feet of rick house that you can float the rent on for the first few years before you sell anything because your barrels are going to pile up fast. Distribution in a control state is a real struggle and competing against national brands is nearly impossible. Unsurprisingly, particularly with vodka, most consumers are happy enough with a $6 plastic bottle of Bartons and just laugh at a $25 bottle of true craft, potato vodka. Even many of your local shops are sourcing and/or rectifying so you can't compete with that either. So, in addition to all the things - you'd better be (or have) a marketing genius. For what it's worth

Unmalted - excellent advice, thank you! JP

Thanks for the reply Silk City! I'll be sure to adjust pH earlier in subsequent batches, and increase the rest times as suggested. We do use an electric bain marie (oil jacket) with an agitator. I know the heat up time is what it is, but once it's to temperature (192f at this elevation) it still runs dreadfully slow. I know the lower the abv in the wash/mash, the slower the run will go - so that was kind of the genesis of my hunch that I had unfermented sugars still in there. We work in 100 gallon sets, so it's 250 lbs grain in just shy of 100 gallons of water, 100 mL biogluc (I know that's more than needed), 300 mL Hightempase, and 30 mL Amylo 300, about a cup of citric to get to 5.8, and 145 g dry yeast.

I knew there was some level of inaccuracy with rotodexterity in the refractometer once alcohol was introduced - just wasn't sure what to expect with this new batch. Thanks for the reply!

Ha, the glucometer is brilliant! I'm a retired paramedic, so I would love to break out my kit again! Thanks for the other tips on sugar detection - I know I could also pop $3,500 on a Snap 51, but I left my money in my other pants...