Newbie in CA

What are the best methods/tools for emptying 53g barrels?

Can I use a "bulldog" with an air compressor?

http://www.gwkent.com/bulldog-barrel-transfer-tube.html

are there special racks out there that allow you to rotate a barrel to empty it out that way?

Thank you

Excuse my ignorance, but what is "the TTB form letter"?

Agreed the BAM can be off at times, but in this case the CFR's concur.

I quote below the current CFR part 5.40 from the online CFR at

http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?c=ecfr&sid=0b1336cf26cbf0cd359ebd43d02b8706&rgn=div5&view=text&node=27:1.0.1.1.3&idno=27#27:1.0.1.1.3.3.25.1

It claims that the ONLY time it shall be optional to put an age statement on the bottle, it will be in the case that it is a straight whiskey over 4 yrs old.

It is mandatory for ALL other whiskies to have an age statement.

It is certainly weird that so many whiskies out there do not comply with this law and get away with it.

(a) Statements of age and percentage for whisky. In the case of straight whisky bottled in conformity with the bottled in bond labeling requirements and of domestic or foreign whisky, whether or not mixed or blended, all of which is 4 years old or more, statements of age and percentage are optional. As to all other whiskies there shall be stated the following:

(1) In the case of whisky, whether or not mixed or blended but containing no neutral spirits, the age of the youngest whisky. The age statement shall read substantially as follows: “___ years old.”

(2) In the case of whisky, containing neutral spirits, if any of the straight whisky and/or other whisky is less than 4 years old, the percentage by volume of straight whisky and/or other whisky, and the age of the straight whisky (the youngest if two or more) and the age of such other whisky (the youngest if two or more). If all the straight whisky and/or other whisky is 4 years or more old, the age and percentage statement for such whiskies is optional. The age and percentage statement for straight whiskies and/or other whisky, whether required or optional, shall be stated in immediate conjunction with the neutral spirits statement required by §5.39, and shall read substantially as follows:

(i) If only one straight whisky and no other whisky is contained in the blend: “__ percent straight whisky __ years old.”

(ii) If more than one straight whisky and no other whisky is contained in the blend: “__ percent straight whiskies __ years or more old.” The age blank shall be filled in with the age of the youngest straight whisky. In lieu of the foregoing, a statement may be made of the ages and percentages of each of the straight whiskies contained in the blend: “__ percent straight whisky __ years old, __ percent straight whisky __ years old, and __ percent straight whisky __ years old.”

(iii) If only one straight whisky and one other whisky is contained in the blend: “__ percent straight whisky __ years old, __ percent whisky __ years old.”

(iv) If more than one straight whisky and more than one other whisky is contained in the blend: “__ percent straight whiskies __ years or more old, __ percent whiskies __ years or more old.” The age blanks shall be filled in with the ages of the youngest straight whisky and the youngest other whisky. In lieu of the foregoing, a statement may be made of the ages and percentages of each of the straight whiskies and other whiskies contained in the blend: “__ percent straight whisky __ years old, __ percent straight whisky __ years old, __ percent whisky __ years old, and __ percent whisky __ years old.”

(3) In the case of imported whiskies described in §5.22(l), Class 12, the labels shall state the ages and percentages in the same manner and form as is required for the same type of whisky produced in the United States.

(4) Notwithstanding the foregoing provisions of this paragraph, in the case of whisky produced in the United States and stored in reused oak containers, except for corn whisky, and for light whisky produced on or after January 26, 1968, there shall be stated in lieu of the words “__ years old” the period of storage in reused oak containers as follows: “__ stored __ years in reused cooperage.”

(5) Optional age statements shall appear in the same form as required age statements.

Wow.

Exactly the same questions here!

Thanks Keith, that makes sense.

Another Pay.gov form question.

I am aware that we are meant to submit our TTB forms in duplicate. In pay.gov when you finish a form and it has saved there is a button next to it that says 'duplicate' - this may sound stupid but is that what they want me to do - simply hit the button to make two copies? Or is there some other way to duplicate them online in pay.gov?

thanks

Nice. This is great info.

Hello Denise

I got all this information from the TTB website (by googling it)

1.

2.

What is proof?

Proof is a method of measuring the alcohol content of spirits. You calculate the proof of a spirits product by multiplying the percent of alcohol by volume by two (2). For example, a spirits product that has a 40% alcohol content by volume is 80 proof [40 multiplied by 2 = 80].

Converting U.S. gallons into proof gallons for tax purposes:

1. Multiply U.S. gallons by the percent of alcohol by volume.

2. Multiply by 2.

3. Divide by 100.

Sample calculation:

1. 100 U.S. gallons x 40% alcohol by volume=4000

2. 4000 x 2=8000

3. 8000/100= 80 proof gallons

If you are not used deionized water, it is a likely source. If you are not using some sort of inorganic rinse (like citric acid) to help remove the residual detergents and soaps, it could be contributing. The two together is the worst: soaps/detergent residue interacting with calcium produces the white residue in your shower, for example.

Thanks Blue

What would be the best/most efficient tank cleaning process in your opinion? for a smallish tank. (800 litres)

- I currently just clean it with something like a 409 and then rinse that out with water. Attaching a pump for an acid rinse for example would be a fair amount of extra work..

Blue, The tanks are stainless. I clean them simply with a grease cutting soap and water. fully rinsed and dry before filling. Temp before during and after is around 55.

I am not using deionized water when I cut the 190 down to around 100 as I go on to re-distill it into Gin. I use deionized water when I proof a final run for bottling.

As you say Nick, I suspect these are minerals introduced with with the water used to cut it with. They are minimal but I noticed them this last run, dried on the side (and bottom) of the tank where the 190 (cut to 100) had made contact.

I guess its going to be hard to figure out unless I send them to a lab.

Occasionally I notice some white powder deposit left behind when I empty a tank of 190. Any pointers as to what that might be?

Mash - wheat

Distilled to low wines, then rectified to 190. Diluted with H2O and carbon filtered.

Let sit for 24 hrs. This is when I noticed the deposit. Very little but enough to make me wonder.

Any ideas?

Thanks Blue

Id love to see an example of what a waiver looks like for your volunteers if you dont mind sharing..

It seems that your analysis of the situation is correct there - ACDA looks to be focussed on legislation and ADI seems to be more about providing an industry forum.

As some of the commenters in that same blog stated though, there are growing divisions between different factions of craft distilleries and they are beginning to show. Particularly between distilleries that buy alcohol and those that make it themselves.

There are also big divisions between the different definitions of what a craft distillery even is, and how those definitions are used by the marketing world.

There will be a shakedown at some point and when it happens, I hope that the surviving distilleries have an appropriate association to represent them. It feels to me that in some ways, that is what this is about.

Thanks

Yes we were a little confused when they asked us for one too, and at this point we dont plan on having one.

However, if anyone out there has come across this before I'd love to hear a little more about it.

Fantastic.

There is very little information on this out there so I am grateful for any pointers.

(1) Serial number in accordance with § 19.490;

Yes, Thanks Blue. This particular line interests me because in section 19.490 it states that the cases should be labelled with a sequential serial number i.e. 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,etc.

Is that your interpretation too?

Is anyone being required by insurance company to get visitors to sign waivers?

and/or present visitors with guidelines (what they can and cant do in the space)?

My local folks are still pushing that barrels are not exempt, the fire folks say OK, then the building folks say 'it is in the fire code, not the building code, so you are extra hazard'..

From what I read, 'in-process' liquids are also exempt from the MAQ's... But then again if you make a control area H-x, MAQ's go out the window and you can do whatever the heck you want...... except have more than 3 people in the room, LOL... I hear a lot of distillers say that that occupancy limit only counts when the still is not operatiing, but have yet to see that in code...

I would also be interested to know where you read that in-process liquids are exempt from the MAQs. That would change a few things in planning.

Have you tried chill filtering?

just make sure the serial number you assign to it is somehow permanently attached to the item. (engraved etc)

I once saw someone taking samples from a whiskey barrel by using an old hand drill and drilling a hole directly into the head of the barrel. Once she had collected a small sample of whiskey in a glass as it poured out of the barrel, she stuck a slither of wood in the hole (looked like a toothpick) that she called a "spile" (I may have missheard). She said she could tell how old a barrel was by the number of spiles in each barrel head.

Anyone seen this practice before? What would the "spile" be made of - what wood?

I would be interested to know what percentage of variation you are finding between the DMA 5000 results, and results from the lab.

Thanks Coop

IPS has proved to be very helpful.

I am thinking of creating a couple of different cordial style liqueurs from fruit and was planning on treating the fruit with pectinolytic enzymes as part of the process, but I can't seem to find any information anywhere on how to do this.

Has anyone out there used this type of enzyme before or anyone have the right knowledge on how to use this particular enzyme?

Hello

I am hoping to get a couple of cases of product out to europe as samples (france and the UK) when I travel out there later this year.

Does anyone know what would be the best way to get that many bottles out there? (24 bottles)