Mechengineer_81

The amount of alcohol in ounces and number of calories per serving calories per serving is going to add more complexity and cost for new product development.

remember turndown is a ratio of total capacity and the other variable to get better control when working with multiple boilers in a single system is to vary the size of boiler as well. I.E., have a couple larger boilers to run steady load and smaller ones to trim. Spirax sarco is always a good choice for components and I personally really like their Hook ups book: https://www.amazon.com/DESIGN-FLUID-SYSTEMS-HOOK-UPS-Spirax/dp/B000NQ5U42 great steam tables and recommended setups for traps and condensate returns for different types of loads. the Miura is technically more of a steam generator vs boiler. there are many types to research. look up firetube vs water tube vs steam generator. all have pluses and minuses. I have worked with cleaver brooks (firetube), miura (steam generator), vapor power( water tube), and a couple others with good results. from an engineering standpoint the vapor power watertube is interesting because all the steam creation happens in a expansion tank after the watertube making all your watertube last a really long time and all your blowdown needed collects in that one expansion tank.

only case where i have seen stainless to have an advantage over sched 40/80 carbon steel welded pipe is if you use low pressure steam and want to use a system like the viega propress SS that can be installed without welding and is significantly lighter on the steam side. advantages being you can install yourself without welding or threading a bunch of pipe, and if you are doing culinary steam injections or direct steam sparging. down side is like you said the boiler and steam equipment is still usually all carbon steel still. I did a system for a client once for all culinary steam and we actually had to do stainless boiler tubes and traps and condensate return. it gets to be really spendy from a equipment standpoint.

would it be considered Chaptalisation if you started with a apple concentrate and added water to dilute to have the right brix for the desired ABV outcome? might be able to maximize your systems output if you could start with concentrate. I mean if your goal is an apple based neutral.

this is about what I am planning as well but I am building a new structure. Any lessons learned or words of advice?

Erik, Thanks for your Candor and openness to let Alex keep sharing his updates.

that is very disheartening IMO. should it have just been moved to speakeasy instead of deleting? Speakeasy As in the speakeasies of yesteryear feel free to discuss anything (within reasonable good taste). Pat a member on the back, pat yourself on the back, share a cocktail recipe, etc... The title literally says feel free to discuss anything within reasonable taste. I don't think knowing the well being of a community member in a war zone would fit anyone's definition of not in good taste.

am I missing something? what happened to the last thread with all your updates?

they have a pretty cool system there. I did some work there a couple years back and helped them to do some as built drawings of their facility. cool group there too.

Yeah if there are no stills available with jackets ASME rated for high above 15PSI steam that really negates the benefits. I figured stills would follow a similar pattern of using low pressure for smaller units then switching to higher pressures in larger units like you find in tube and shell HX and brewhouses. usually there becomes a point where the reduction of heat transfer area due to the higher pressure steam outweighs the cost of the pressure vessel certification and rating. As for the boiler operator requirement, I have seen cases where steam generators help skirt that rule as well and don't fall under the typical "Boiler" regulations. There are also water tube steam generators that can further reduce your classification s a "Boiler" in some jurisdictions.

also educate yourself on the difference between steam generators and steam boilers. There are many different types out there and all have pluses and minuses based on your particular setup. Most cheap "boilers" are actually steam generators and not true boilers. I would also add, if it is not cost prohibitive 150PSIG steam is a lot nicer than 15PSIG as far as having a good dry steam. 15PSIG helps save costs on vessels but adds a lot of intricacies as far as condensate return systems and possibilities of flooding jackets. if you have a scenario where you have to have your boiler a decent distance from use points, lots of independent loads or a lot of elevation change, the higher pressure can really help as well. In my previous life I did a lot of steam utility pipe design and calculation and 15PSIG systems were always the most finicky vs the bigger 150 PSIG systems we installed. Armstrong and Spirax Sarco have some good installation guideline books out there that have alot of good steam information if you are the type that likes to read up and learn. I personally really like The Hook Up Book: https://www.spiraxsarco.com/global/en-US/steam-expertise/the-hook-up-book lots of good info in there to help understand steam.

sorry I took that as electric vs gas to heat the boiler not electric vs gas boilers to produce steam. ignore my comment on heat up time. That question is more simple economics. what is your gas supply cost and electricity cost? then get a quote for both an electric and gas boiler of suitable size and look at the overall operating cost with the capital cost amortized across their life span. dont forget to include install costs and air permit costs for gas if applicable in your area.

Following. I have not personally ran either but everything I have read leads to saying Electric is cheaper capital wise but the heat up times are a lot greater due to the heat transfer being less with a liquid to liquid convection vs using the latent heat of steams phase change to water. What size range stills are you looking at?

Welcome. I am in the same boat. I am also hoping to open up someday to help chase the the passion of distilling. I am south of you in Washington state. This group is definitely amazing for advice and sharing experience.

i know tis is an old thread but i was wondering if using apple juice concentrate to raise the brix be considered Chaptalizing?

I have been planning on a similar sized still to start out and I think if you have the space a large poly tank, preferably buried or in the basement, could very well be a big enough heat sink to run your condenser and not need a chiller. if you assume a running load of around 15,000 watts (51,150 BTU/Hr) for 8 hours a day that is 409,200 BTU per day. if you had a 5,000 gallon tank for a heat sink that would only be roughly a 10 ºF rise in 8 hours. then you have all night for it to cool back down. add some heat exchangers at night to expel heat to the air and you could decrease the tank size if needed quite drastically and probably still alot cheaper to run than a traditional refrigerant based chiller.

we need a like button on this forum! congrats Thatch. that is a huge upgrade in MAQ. I am assuming you are still limited to 240 not in a barrel though right?

Where are you located? do you have a rough height and width for shipping?

I would have to agree with Paul 1000% on ASME pressure reliefs and the correct code on electrical components, but then i just noticed you were referencing stilldragon europe and all you measurements are in metric, so possibly USA codes and regulations do not apply? either way make sure what ever you do you do it safely and in accordance with your local codes and regulations. with a configuration like you explained in your parts list i would at least make sure you have a pressure relief on your boiler with a packed column because unlike a bubbler plate with a sight glass you will not be able to tell if it is clogged. a clogged column will then make your bottom boiler build pressure until it relieves somewhere, either from a valve or by making its own path, such as exploding or rupturing the boiler vessel. It is not a likely it will clog but do you want to bet your life on it?

if you are doing a stripping run first, you could always explore a section of packed column and get more theoretical plates per foot of height to maximize your efficiency with the low ceiling height requirements. Ceramic raschig rings are commonly used in industrial applications to achieve a good HETP (height equivalent to theoretical plate).

Congratulations on retirement! If you are wandering around our way you are always welcome in for a drink!

that is a great value in my opinion. Did you have to do anything special for venting for fire marshal approval? I would assume with no electrical and a metal structure it would be pretty easy to add "adequate venting" with a simple turbine ventalator on the roof and some floor level side vents.

Thanks for the picture. That makes perfect sense. Are you going to have room for a third row? I am guessing that is a 20 foot container and not a 40’

welcome Nick! I am just south of you in Washington. Once you get started i would love to make the trip up and check t out. you live in a beautiful area. Have you talked to Specific Mechanical, i think they are in your neck of the woods.

would not discount the micro turbine option until you price it out for your scale. It was a couple years ago but i remember it being a surprisingly economic option per unit, especially if you can get some tax credits or other incentives from your utility. If you have a cool source like a pond or geothermal well you can use that with a heat pump style heating cooling system. Depending on the size of your setup you could even use condenser water or pond water through heat exchangers to heat/cool your production space. I think an in slab hydronic piping system could be used for heating/cooling from your process water and also use the building itself as a heat sink. this could greatly reduce your electrical load and make solar/wind/etc more economical. there are literally 1000's of ways to skin that cat but with all the heating and cooling going on in distillation t would be very easy to design a system to utilize as much of that heat as possible as long as you can make it flexible enough to accommodate your work schedule. I would think of it this way, f you have a big hot source from your boiler and a large heat sink (cool source) like a pond/geothermal well/ irrigation water i would use those two sources to do as much as possible before you put any more energy into your facility. I am assuming you mean using spents for feed or bio-digester because if you had a bio-digester i would put all fuel you can find into that for greater energy output.