Classick

the problem is, here in california.. we are not allowed to sell direct to customers, retail, or people that come in for tastings. If you have a brandy-makers license, you can sell your fruit based spirits directly to retailers and customers, but cannot "legally" taste them on it, they have to buy on smell evaluation alone. I think what Arthur has been trying to point out here is this. We california producers are not mad at bars and restaurants for creating concoctions that will help them sell craft drinks.. We are mad at the state for pushing through, in record time i might add, legislation that directly and flagrantly helps a relatively new business population ( bars and rests looking to make their own infusions) to sell their products, while we the craft spirits producers, who have/are slowly and steadily fought to preserve, grow,and indeed improve upon the craft spirits industry here in our state, fighting with one if not both hands tied behind our backs. When we started our distillery here in the Bay Area 12 years ago, we were one of 6, maybe 7 micro distilleries on the whole west coast.. now there are 28 in California alone, and growing.. and yet for that whole time, we have been denied the ability to dell directly to retailers, bars/restaurants, and hell even people that just want to wander in, maybe do some tasting, and would love to walk out with a bottle but cant. Arthurs argument is that while we have been trying convince the state to give our industry even the same ability as the craft wine and beer industries have here, along comes this state legislation that allows ABC bar to just go an mix their own unique product ( the same as a rectifier would) and sell it basically tax free, even without permits, thus taking away margin from legal rectifiers. I love cocktails, i am in SF quite often, and really enjoy seeing and tasting all of the great mixtures the individual bars come up with.. it really fosters ingenuity... but where is the love for the craft spirits producers? why cannot we get similar legislation fast-tracked and approved so that we may enjoy the same success? where is the business justification for this?

Hey Colorado Distillers, Im headed out to Breckenridge between the 8th and 13th of January.. I figured i would post up in advance this time and see if anyone was up for a visit from a fellow distiller. I think i remember there being a few of ya close by. I will have a rental car ( hopefully 4x4) so i can make a trek to come visit, but maybe an hour or so radius? Look forward to some tasting! Ill be bringing some of my stuff with me too i hope.

We also offer contract distilling services here in California, specializing in the production of rum, gin, vodka, and fruit brandies. We have numerous clients if you'd like references. Please contact service[at]essentialspirits[dot]com if you would like to discuss further. Cheers

oh right.. good question. I always forget there are distillers out there that have to make stripping runs (our still is single pass)

Pete did you notice any discernible difference in the distillate of the "semi continuous " batch vs any previous batches you did? I think the only thing i might be concerned with was keeping the wort that was in the initial 500 liters in for a longer amount of time than it would have taken to "naturally" distill out all the alcohol. If i had to guess i might think that some lower wine notes would creep into the final product as a result. Kudos to you though for the innovation and not being afraid to try something "new"

Drew should you interact with any of these wineries, please feel free to send them my way... I have been using this business model for wineries up and down california for the last, oh 8 years And yes.. it works quite well... its a pain in the butt making grappa, but its a labor of love for sure

great problem solving here guys. A true community! Thanks for the contributions.

Its one of the software options i was looking at, and pretty much decided on, but we have so few tasting room visits, we just work with cash. We have a friend with a brewery though, and im pretty sure thats the program he uses with great success. Sorry if thats not much help. I think you have to look at how much $ the tasting room will bring in to justify the cost of a program like that... or you might be able to upgrade your wholesale version to include the POS.. speak with a quicken rep about that. It also offers credit card processing, returns, inventory tracking, etc. I believe they have a demo on the website you can checkout

do you have quickbooks POS? that would certainly help.. there are other free POS software out there, but often times you get what you pay for

we use 20% in our gas-fire Alambic

Gotcha. FYI, according to TTB.. "Pommace" is grape pommace by default... if you are talking about pommace/must from any other fruit, you have to designate it as such "Apple Pommace, Pear Pommace" etc.

I've had TTB kick back labels saying they wanted formula approval for my grappas, or ones i was making for clients... I happen to have a signed document from the TTB stating exactly that i do NOT need a formula approval, so now i just include a scan of this file along with my COLA. Many times the people reviewing the label submissions know very little about the regulations they are supposed to be controlling. quite frustrating

Be careful with the underlined bit... there are different rules for marc brandy when you add alcohol back in... you may need formula approval if that is your process. EDIT: i forgot you are in Canada.. you may have different regulations than the US. in the US.. you are not required to have formula approval for your grappa/marc brandy label as long as you are going from the pommace as it is off of the press.. if you add wine/fermented juice back into the skins, then you are technically required to submit a formula approval detailing how much you are adding back, what proof, blah blah blah.. extra pain in the butt

main thing is.. if you dont get the pommace on the day its pressed, see if you can convince them to put some CO2 over it and wrap it in plastic.. that will preserved the skins for a little bit longer. every day that goes by, you will lose alcohol from the skins decreasing your potential yields.

The arrangement i have with the wineries i work with here in Napa is they give me a call on the day of their pressing, and i arrive with my own macro bins, or have arranged to have them onsite before then, and they just empty the press into my bins, i come pick them up and once im done distilling, i can either take them back to the wineries, or i take the used pommace to the local green recycle place nearby... costs like $40 to get rid of 3 tons. The short easy answer is.. no you shouldnt have to pay.. but if for some reason you do have to.. make sure they agree to take the spent pommace back from you at least, so you dont have to pay for disposal.

I cant answer for anyone else.. but we do all of our macerations at high proof. Even an overnight soak gives us a great extraction and is quite time efficient.

Hey Rick.. thanks for the link... can you describe a little bit more how he helped? Im assuming it was a similar model to how he finances the kegs for breweries? sort of initial cash infusion to pay for barrels and or supplies? something of that nature? Any more details are greatly appreciated. D.C.

We have been making rum for about 5 years now... and have never treated our molasses... thats not to say if we could afford a centrifugal filter that we wouldnt try to clean it up... the less undissolved solids in it, the more efficient the fermentation and consequently the distillation would be

HAH! funny you mention this.. i was just thinking about posting a similar question.. I just went through one whole washer vessel full of Gin heads... and just refilled it with some 182 proof rum heads. My only concern is that the high proof alcohol is prematurely fadind the black plastic/paint that surrounds the windshield and the top of my trunk. Sure does smell nice though rolling down the road... plus if you pass a cow farm it smells WAY better. lol

If we may ask... what proof are you distilling at.. and how far down are you making your tails cuts.

We've had labels approved in as little as a week... that being said i too can echo the sentiments that TTB seems to be backed up.. IT took 60 days or so for our last label approval (finally got it last week) If they reject it, they will say why ( and often you are at the mercy of the person who is the reviewer, and their understanding of the laws) You have the option of making the corrections and re-submitting ( there is a checkbox for this)... but if they reject something on your label that you know to be within compliance of the regs.. dont be afraid to call them and bitch... i have personally been involved in a few such cases. It takes time to get them to see the errors of their ways, and in one case, it took lawyers, but "we" prevailed. good luck.

Any input from the federal side? Just curious as to how long its taking people nowadays to get their DSP licenses

Hi All, Just a very general question , please answer if you feel up to it, I am just looking for some data points. We opened our distillery about 13 years ago, and regulations were very different than they are now. I was just curious, how long did it take you to get your distillery up and running. From the time you first put pen to paper, till you received your final basic federal permit. Any information is greatly appreciated. The information is just for personal curiosity and will not be used in any type of publication, just fyi.

This is a good point, and i have already had to defend "our" position to a few people... so perhaps some more discussion on these boards, maybe posting up examples of discussions you have had with people you're trying to convince, so that we can share and concepts/tactics that seem to work well, and avoid those that dont. True grassroots

Ive cross posted this to several of my community message boards, and have friends that write for 2 local papers where i am trying to get a couple of articles written ( i think that is a great tactic for everyone else as well) Also, i've contacted both of my representatives informing them of the issue, and asking them how best we can help the community ask for support. Finally this was my letter to congress in support of the bill. Its kind of scattered, but there was a character count on the submission form, so i was limited in the detail... its also a litte flowery, but i figure politicians might appreciate that type of lexicon.