treskatz

Sorry we are a small Austrian distillery. And we currently export only to Germany. But if you can tell me how I can send some samples to US I will do. Besides golden delicious I can strongly recommend Elstar (Ingrid Marie x Golden Delcious). The last 3 years in nearly every bigger competition in Austria Elstar (and descendent cultivars like ecolette) is the winner in the apples category. Maybe interesting upcoming cultivars: redfleshed apples like Baya Marisa - wonderful lively acid and hints of red berries, strawberry. I am impatiently waiting to get some. If I was distilling in US, I would try out some of the native northern American crab apple species like Malus fusca, Malus angustifolia or others. Here in Europe I can only get Malus sylvestris: a wonderful strong and full bodied destillate, with a nice almond touch (but less than rowan berry of course) and a hint of strawberry.

* Some numbers from our production from the last 3 years (kg fresh fruit per 1 litre of 40 %vol final product): - Elstar apple: 16-20kg - McIntosh: 14-15 kg - Golden Delicious: 12-13kg - European crab apple: 15 kg - zwetschge plum: 11-13kg - rowan berry: 32-50kg - apricot: 15-19kg - bartlett: 14-20kg - cherry: 8-12kg - sour cherry: 18-23kg * we stopped distilling concentrates: in our opinion: it's not vibrant - it's rather boring compared to fresh fruit * brandy distilled from apple juice is maybe more smooth but definitely it lacks power and complexity compared to mash from fresh fruit.

current example "apricot": a) refractometer showed 62°Oechsle ==> gravity of clear extract 1.062 ==> gravity of mash (without stones) ca. 1.03 my rule of thumb: half oechsle of extract is the gravity of the mash b ) (62°Oe * 0.98) / 4 = 15.2°Brix (to have a precise mapping of oechsle <-> brix you have to look up a table; factor of 0.98 is okay for 45-75°oechsle) c) tomorrow will be the end of fermentation and I guess at 3.0°Brix (apparant extract) (here I use a handheld digital density meter - the same I also use for alcohol measurement of destillates) (to filter the mash sample I use a stainless kitchen sieve: I put the filtrate repeatedly back on top of the sieve until it is very slowly dripping ==> then it is mostly clear enough; if the sample is very hazy the meter will display a value 0.5 to 1.0 °brix above the real one) d) so the apparent delta will be 15.2-3.0 = 12.2 °Brix ==> I expect 12.2 / 2 = 6.1 to 6.4 %vol alcohol in the mash e) so let's say 100l of fermented mash with 6.2%vol ==> 6.2 lA (litre of 100% pure Alcohol) f) for the heart of fruit destillates we calculate 40 to 48% (mostly depends on kind of fruit) of total alcohol: so let's say 6.2 * 0.45 = 2.8 lA g) drinking strength let's say 40%vol: 2.8 lA / 0.40 = 7 litre h) so 103 kg of fruit for 7 litre ==> 14.7 kg per litre some apple/apple mash measurements: - golden delicious: 75°Oechlse - elstar: 52°Oechsle down to apparent extract of 1.3°Brix - topaz: 60°Oechsle down to 1.3°Brix - pinova: 61°Oechsle down to 1.0°Brix - arlet: 54°Oechsle down to 0.5°Brix - crab apple: 42°Oechsle

I always use the whole fruit: much more flavor. I once passed apple mashes (Gala and Braeburn) thereby removing the peel ==> the brandy was a littlle bit softer but more boring. But the crushing I do is coarse: - apple: hammermill with 16mm sieve - soft perries (like Bartlett, DrGuyot,Limoneras): we mash solely by single screw/progressing cavity pumps. - we use strong but slow horizontal/vertical agitator tanks

I would suggest to take small samples of your mash (let's say 250ml) and put different kind of enzymes into it. And the next day you just taste it. And of course take a sample without any. The different kind of enzymes I use for my fruit mashes (for distilling) are: - Lyase (100%clean, not allowed for organic): According to some research is able to reduce methanol by approx 10-40%, unless the mash is stored for a prolonged period of up to 3-8 weeks. The luiquidification is ok, but no so good as standard pektinase products - Pectinase for making juices: includes methylesterase, galacturonase and lyase, increases methanol, good luiquidification - Pectinase with hemicellulase: strong liquidification, but for pip fruits: There is I think a harsh taste (too much extraction of unwanted stuff?) - Proteinase: maybe for plums: a fullier body? - beta-glucosidase: for some grape, berry and stone fruits: more extraction of some flavors, but can be too much For pip fruits I stopped using enzymes, except for apples and some wild/perry pears: in order to have at least some luiquidification i use lyase.

- Which enzymes to use to crush pectin, avoiding too much methanol and extracting the right kind of flavors 1) products like Supra Mash, Ultra Fruit contain many different kind of enzymes: .) different kind of pectinase (galacturonase, pectinesterase, lyase, endo-variants...) .) different kind of hemicellulase for the hairy region .) and others (google "pektin hairy region erbsloeh" for some nice pictures) positive: + they fully decompose pectin including the hairy region, work quite good also at low pH-levels (3,0pH) + for some fruits (e.g. raspberry, plums) it supports extraction of complex flavors negative: - but for some fruits (apple,pears) I think the extract too much of harsh/bitter stuff, I guess this is done by hemicellulase - pectinesterase releases all the methanol quite fast - speeding up fermentation 2) 100% pure Lyase products positive: + this product just decomposes pectin without supporting the release of methanol + a research paper showed that the release of methanol is reduced by ca. 30% as compared to mashes without any enzymes. But this is only true for the first two weeks: then the methanol content rises again up to 100% within two months, due to the esterase released by the fruit itself. (But fermentation should normally be finished within 7-14days). + we use it for: . apples: because we don't want to support additional flavor extraction . quince: because of high pectin: to reduce methanol (nevertheless you should look for very sweet quinces, because legal methanol limits are relative to ethanol content, e.g. in EU for quince and some others: 1350g methanol / hl ethanol, otherwise 1000-1200g) negative: - liquefaction is less compared to other products, but acceptable - not allowed for organic (at least in DACH), because it is produced by a self-cloned aspergillus niger variety (GMO) links: google "Einfluss verschiedener Parameter während der Einmaischung und Gärung auf die Methanolgehalte in Obstmaischen" (altough in german: some tables and english abstract) PS: leo kübler might introduce a cheap, semi-quantitative and fast methanol test this year Is there any feasable methanol reduction alternative known in the US: e.g. some protein inactivating all the pectinesterase? 3) beta-glucosidase products: releases a certain group of flavors (especially terpenes) contained in muscat/traminer grapes, stone fruits/prunus and berries positive: + muscat grapes: the muscat flavor can double, much fresher/complex + some berry brandies become more complex + for some plum brandies: a fuller body/vanilla negative: - apricot: too spicy - some sour cherries: too much clove - some berries: a little too spicy But I guess you have to test this first with a small batch for each fruit variety. links: google "Freisetzung von Aromastoffen in Obstmaischen" (erbsloeh pdf, although in german: the tables tells you some numbers) - The best ph value to avoid infections AND for the best flavor . to constantly avoid infections in fruit mashes: <3,2pH . a research paper from Klosterneuburg concluded: among the different williams/bartlett mashes (2,6pH - 2,8pH - 3,0pH - 3,2pH - 3,4pH - 3,6pH) - the brandy distilled from the 3,0pH variant tasted best - the higher ones: not crisp enough - the lower ones: less body . I am also quite happy with 3,0-3,2pH . I accidentially lowered the pH value of a perry pear mash to 2,8pH: and it turned out to taste even better ==> maybe the high tannine content of this pear has been reduced to a nice level . we are using phosphoric acid (food grade) - we have made negative experiences with sulphur acid (H2SO4) and stone fruits Where can I find any accessible research papers in the US concerning: - fruit mashes - malt mashes - herb/spice/root/fruit maceration/distillation (Gin, Geist,...) Or where do you get the most interesting distilling infos beside talking with colleagues? How has your whiskey turned out so far? mixed results: - two whisk(e)ys I think turned out very good: 1) a maize/corn whiskey aged 4yrs in new American oak (Missouri) (got a rating of 93 points in Murray's whisky bible some years ago) 2) a spelt malt whisky aged 4yrs in American/Sherry oak (rated best spelt whisky at the 1st alpine whisky challenge, but this is currently a small competition) - On the other side we have to improve: some of our whiskys lack smoothness, body and complexity, albeit the nose is very typical of the raw material we use Some DACH/Alpine Whisky(e)s producers: . Säntis Malt, Rugenbräu and some other Swiss distillers: www.schnapsforum.ch/cms/fileadmin/pdf/Schweizer_Whisky.pdf . Blaue Maus, Henrich and association of some german whisky distillers: http://www.deutsche-whiskybrenner.de . You'll find 1/2 of Austrian whisky distillers here: Austrian Whisky Association - AWA - www.austrian-whisky.at Some questions: . Do most of the artisan US whiskey distillers lauter the wort or not? . Do you use some of the Fermentis yeasts like Safspirit Malt, Safspirit American Whiskey, Safale S-33, Safale S-04, Safale S-05?

Hi everyone, Our family is running a small distillery since 17 years. Our main focus is fruit brandies (100% distillates from 100% fruit mashes, i.e. eaux-de-vie/brand) like so many in the DACH-region (i.e. Germany-Austria-Switzerland). We distill classic pip fruit, stone fruit, berries and wild fruits, as well as some unusual stuff like weiki, red beet, beer, tomato, carrot, oranges... In recent years we also started to distill "Geist": plant/fungi material macerated with neutral alcohol and then distilled - among others: lemongrass, boletus, grapefruit, cinnamon, tea, coffee, cacao, lavendula, hazelnut, ginger, ... Also like 100-200 others in the DACH-region we started to make whisk(e)ys. We use conventional malts from barley and rye as well as malted oat, spelt, maize, einkorn and emmer. I wonder why there is so little exchange of experience/research between US and the DACH region. They things I discuss with other distillers are among others: - What varieties of apple, pear, sour cherry, etc. are best to distill? - How to crush/mash different kind of fruits avoiding to introduce off-flavors at this stage? - What kind of yeast to use (e.g. we are comfortable using a hybrid yeast:bayanus x new world wine yeast) ? - Which enzymes to use to crush pektin, avoiding too much methanol and extracting the right kind of flavors - The best ph value to avoid infections AND for the best flavor - the best fermenting temperature (depending on fruit and yeast) - the best way to distill: column, raw/fine distilling or mixed variants (depending on the fruit and year) - the best dephlegmator temperature (can be quite different e.g.: rather warm/soft for williams pear and very cold for citric flavor pears) - filtrating: from 5microns to 0,7 microns, depending on fruit and kind of distilling - what kind of neutral alcohol is suited best for macerating herbs, fruits etc: maize based or cane molasses based, extra fine filtered etc. - what are the things to put in a flavor basket Cheers, Robert

I have learned that the best way to remove S02 from wines/mashes is to do the following: (1) distilling the firsty cycle, i.e.making raw distillate/petites eaux/Rohbrand (without column or column switched off) to about 20-25 %vol (if higher ==> dilute with water to 20-25%vol) (2) add so much NaOH/Sodium hydroxide as needed to reach exactly 5,8ph: now nearly all sulphuric acid should be bound, if added more the taste becomes soapy, use a good ph-meter (3) now distill a second time ==> fine spirit/Feinbrand PS: using H202 is too unspecific, i.e. it'll also react with flavor compounds and oxidize them, and using lime is too cumbersome and also a bit risky (soapy). ref (german):"http://www.agrar.steiermark.at/cms/dokumente/11305328_13888112/4a7a7e26/Einfluss%20PH%20Wert%20beim%20Entschwefeln%20von%20Edelbr%C3%A4nden%202011-03.pdf"