MG Thermal Consulting

Well, is your $50K price installed? There is a lot of labor and small accessories needed, even on a low pressure boiler. I got a budget of $150K on a 2 MMbtu boiler, so the devils in the details.

Jay, matching up the chiller to the reservoir is the key, but also the jacket performance! I am waiting on a couple fellows who are testing their jackets (with city water, figuring out the flow and measuring the Temp in and out with a simulated test run using water. This way I can match all three exchange devices and quote the proper system. Cheapest way on the reservoirs is to gang together several poly tanks (square ones work best for cutting holes and attaching fittings). If you can find a used bulk milk tank to store the water, that may even be cheaper. Right now all I have as far as used chillers go is a 9 ton 460/3/60 and a 2 ton 230/1/60. Let me know if I can be of any further help. Mike

The 10 ton 230/3/60 unit has been purchased. The 9 ton and 2 ton are still available.

If you are using a "closed loop", if you trim (control flow) to a load, you need to bypass the remainder available back to the main return line. As far as flow meters go, they are pricey and usually are used to secure a fixed flow rate. Flow regulators (either electronic or pressure actuated) come in two or three way varieties, the two way being less expensive, but you still need to add the bypass line, like you automatically have for the three way valve. With small diameter valves, the three way is a space saver as well. If you are running with city water, you obviously will have a wider swing, summer to winter- closed loop you can reset your reservoir tank or chiller op stat to a higher tempp if it is too cold for ya.

Depending on the motor characteristics, how the pump is run on the pump curve can cause an overloading state (say deadheading a pump) that can cause the overloads to trip. Multiple occurrences of overload trips can in turn cause either failure of the overloads or the motor windings from the heat buildup.

Paul, have a successful "camp"- I hope to stop by and see your operation some time soon!

Depends on what the unfiltered "stuff" is, I guess. You take the "stuff" in cloudy wine and that is tartaric acid crystals, the sediment that can make some people sick. I have sold glycol chillers for cold filtering, so it is not uncommon. The glycol is supplied at around 25F, so it is usually a stand-alone chiller for that part of the process, and of course, another expense.

I'm only talking about the dimpled jacket that is attached to the outside of the unit. Internal coils are rated higher according to the pressure rating of the tubing, which is higher that jackets.

And if you put a jacket on the tank, at least have it rated for 35 psig. You have a problem with cooling water flow (closed loop) when you try to set up a cooling system when the tank jacket is only good for 15 psi (used for steam heat on the front end). You wind up putting some expensive valves to ensure pressure from pump not bursting the jacket and still getting flow you need for cooling, especially if you have to get a modulating 3- way bypass valve, a bypass line, check valve and control for the 3 way valve. This can be an issue on mash tanks when you are told you can crash cool by pumping chilled water through the jacket after heating. Everyone should be well advised to find out what the capacity of the jacket (by experimenting if necessary) is for the jacket when pumping chilled water through it.

I'll let contacts who I have mash chiller quotes out to of its availability.

It's a stretch if you don't have an agitator or any other moving parts driven by a motor? Electrical inspectors are the ones normally the ones dealing with UL issues.

As soon as we get the actual performance details done, I will send you the info. It's one of those things that came up in casual conversation with a manufacturer and was a system that was developed for another purpose, but we saw the value of it in this application. I've got you on the mailing list, thanks for the interest. Mike

If it has electrical components, UL has some interest. Other items having to do with safety as well. It also is used to standardize components (to be UL you have to use UL components). There are other testing agencies out there (ETL is another), but if you have UL components and the inspector doesn't budge, you will need to get it rated "in the field"...aka money to get a sticker. If you don't have components that are rated by some testing agency, it could get sticky.

I am also looking at an air-cooled NSF mash pre-cooler which could take a bite out the mash load as well, if you are connecting the chiller to the mash cooling.

Mash, I don't have either as a single phase, but both are available new and I have a used 3 phase 10 ton. Email me and I can get specs out to you. Regards,

Is the manufacturer going to honor any warranty? With 410a high pressure refrigerant, more likely to exhibit leaks down the road- just saying...

I am sure Jesse up in ME at Trident Welding would know someone. If Jess can't help, I have a friend outside Boston who may know someone in W. Mass.

Good luck to you! My company specializes in cooling equipment for industrial and commercial uses. I am located down the road in Lawrenceville, GA and would be happy to visit when you get to the point of laying out your equipment. Regards, Mike Gronski

Sorry ...Yes, it is 208-230/1/60. It doesn't include a small water reservoir like most of these small chillers do because it was being used for an external reservoir (if you're going to use it for mash cooling, I suggest you get one about 2.5 times the volume of your mash tank- this keeps you from overheating the chiller when you being mash cooling). If you are just using it for fermenting control, you only need a small tank to act as reservoir to feed the pump or plumb it as a completely closed system with p/t valve, vent and expansion tank. Regards, Mike

Also, I have a 2 HP air cooled chiller with circulating pump available. It was purchased but never used and carries a 1 year parts warranty. Contact me for other details.

..Is that THE Finger Lakes....the general area, or F.L. Distillery?

Just curious, is that 40 KW heater 460/3/60?

It is an understatement saying cost of electricity MAY not be as cheap in other parts of the country (world). Not only the cost of the electricity is important, but whether the distillery can physically install enough amperage and voltage. The last part cuts off many distillers right at the knees before they get started.

I was curious about your study on relative operational costs of steam (gas fired) vs electric. Steam, while weighted heavy on first cost, is more efficient energy wise, no? If small set-ups are more efficient with electric, what is the top over point where steam is more efficient. I would assume also, some outfits would be located where enough electric power may not be available, all those in "agricultural zoned" permits, more than likely.

I have a price reduction on the 10 ton chiller. Also, a used 9 ton 460/3/60 has become available. I would have them checked out first at the operating supply temperature and ship them from the factory in Arkansas. Regards,