MG Thermal Consulting

I specify and supply all kinds of cooling systems, among which are the smaller portable chillers. With chillers, it depends on what temperature you ask for on the supply side, the colder you go, the larger the HP and sometimes if 24F for cold filtering, a larger circulating pump. Another thing how exactly much BTU/hr you are asking for. If you need you process time shorter, then the HP goesw up again. For instance, a 3.5 HP, 24F chiller for indoor installation rated at about 17,000 btu/hr can get up to $10,000 or a little less depending on options. $10,000 can buy you a 50F chiller that will be 5 - 7.5HP for indoor chillers, a couple grand more for outdoor ones. The best thing to do is get as much information together to pin point the total btu/hr load to ask for. The last thing is what voltage you have: 230/1/60, 230/3/60 or 460/3/60 (some manufacturers are cutting out 230 volt units, so you have to buy a step up transformer). Please let me know what you need and I would be happy to price something up (also if this is an urgent need or can wait a couple months.) Regards, Mike

Welcome, a displaced WNYer here (Corning). I miss the fall weather back North (and Thanksgivings). Good luck and if you need any cooling equipment, give me a shout! Regards, Mike

Whereabouts are you? I'm in Gwinnett Co. ( NE of the Perimeter). I help out on cooling equipment, if you need it.

Meerkat has pretty much encapsulated many heat transfer issues- as scale of equipment increases what works as cooling in a small scale doesn't work on a large scale. At some point using jacketed exchangers become less efficient and you have to lower the water/glycol temperature in the "grey area" where you can get close to the required heat transfer with agitation. Of course the cost is more HP for the cooling as a function of the refrigeration cycle needing more energy to perform at colder temperatures.

I am not sure what you have as far as refrigerant compressor goes, I gave you what a 1/2 HP pulls and that is at 230/1/60 and you said you were running 115/1/60 which would be much greater than 10 amps if it was a 1/2 HP. How much time does it take the 100 gal tank to heat up? If you can get close with that 100 gal tank and have a way put put another tank along side it, doubling your recovery, you may have the solution. You would need to run a line between the two tanks towards the bottom of each to "equalize" the levels. Other than that, if you can reset the chiller outlet set point for 45F then you would have a better differential but it may take longer to get to the set point on the tank. I have small "rack" type indoor chillers, less than 1.5 HP or you might find sometrhing similar and stagger chiller/tank combo systems if you get to the point where the combination of not enough recovery time doesn't do it for you.

I am not familiar with the construction of aquarium chillers, but talking in terms of a traditional refrigerated chiller, this is how flow rate affects reaching "nominal capacity". If a chiller is "rated" at 18,000 btu/hr, at a particular set point, usually the flow rate is somewhere stated as well. In this case it is 500 GPH which translates to about the maximum flow for a 1/2" pipe. I don't think this is what you have though- I have ratings for a 1/2 HP chiller @ 230/1/60 with a circulating pump being 10 amps and between 5,000 and 8,000 btu/hr depending on the outlet temp. The 60 GPH flow is about right for a 1/2 HP chiller which will chill the water 10 degrees. There is an inverse proportion between GPM and chilled water TD within the effectiveness of a given refrigeration heat exchanger, if you spped up the flow, the TD drops- but here's the kicker- there usually only a small range the chiller's heat exchanger will perform well and that is usually the rated amout +/- 15%. Now that your head is spinning, I would suggest trying to up the flow through the chiller and get a contact temp probe to see what the temp is in and out of the chiller and see how that effects things. You may have to get a little bigger pump. I suspect the aquarium pump can only operate with a low pressure (by design) and by adding a bunch of piping and fittings, the available flow goes way down. Let me know if you have any questions. Mike

I have a product that will be available next year that will act as a drycooler with an evaporative deck add-on so that you can reach an approach temperature of 7 degrees (ambient wet bulb plus desired output temp). If you can't find an old bulk milk tank that you can chill water in during summer, the ideal is a small booster refrigeration chiller (portable with reservoir and circulator pump) and a brazed plate water to water exchanger to chill the well or muny water the few degrees you need to get to the point you need in colder months. You would need to drain the water out of the chiller during non-use below frweezing outdoor temps. I recently talked to someone who picked up a used bulk milk tank fairly cheaply, so it was a good deal for him. Good luck to you. Mike

As a side comment, I also have available the entire heating/cooling system set up for outdoor installation with a remote control on the temp set point. Good part here is that you wouldn't need the explosion proof. Check with me on available voltages, depends on the size of the system. Regards, Mike

It is an electric heat by a circulated glycol/water medium, available in a variety of KW heat sizes, usually 4 kw, 6 kw and 12 Kw are most common. Available in a heat only or heat/cool model with standard metal finished cabinetry, option for stainless steel. The cooling option uses an internal heat exchanger to meter external source of cooling water or glycol/water necessary to achieve the desired set-point dailed in from the controller. The control is achieved by a PID controller that is commonly used in many industrial processes such as mold temperature control. It has a UL rating for a Class 1 Group D Div 1 or 2. Price depends on which type X-proof is required and various options. The unit voltage is 460/3/60 or 230/3/60 as an upcharge. Other classes of explosion-proof duty are available as well. Regards, Mike

For any that may have the need for a hot fluid heat system that requires X-Proof code, I know of one that has UL code, making the problem of inspector not seeing the stamp and you having to make it "field done". Not a common need, but if you are not buying everything from scratch, it helps to have an option.

Greetings from a transplanted Northerner here in Atlanta!

Good luck to you and welcome. Anything I can do if you have cooling issues, give me a shout. Regards, Mike

Mars, I grew up in WNY (Corning) and lived in Buffalo for many years (please don't laugh about the Bills). Good luck on your venture and if you need any water/glycol chillers, give me a shout. Regards, Mike

And if somewhere down the road you think you may need a mechanical refrigeration chiller or some other electical load to pump as well.

I'm VERY surprised that any light source was supplied with equipment that would be a possible source of heat. I can see some regulation coming down on the still manufacturers as well. Let's face it, many local inspectors have fleeting knowledge of what the universe is able to make boom on a bad day, some give the benefit of the doubt, others red flag everything they see. I have sold chillers to fuel offloading engineers, and the cost of EVERYTHING is extreme (any usually requires 100% backup). Think of something breaking a bulb on equipment, causing a spark, and away you go- it's not the static environment but the dynamic environment that also causes most of the concern. On the subject of cogen, there are smaller absorption chillers (and more on the drawing board for low temp application) that first cost very expensive, but if the heat is free and you can get a write off from the local authorities, may be worth it for a little larger craft distillery. The chiller would have to be enclosed in a machine room (extra cost there). Mike

Your welcome. BTW, are the cupolas power vented? As far as "small", it's all just a scale of the "boom" and need the same precaution as the "big" guys. The cost for the prevention may be higher in percentage for the craft distiller, it's the way it always seems to work out on industrial projects as well for projects tied to hazardous construction. Mike

Likewise, if you have heat transfer (cooling) issues, let me know. Good luck! Mike

Good Luck & I'm sure you'll get tons of info from the people here! I offer cooling equipment solutions and throw my two cents in for heat exchange solutions. Regards, Mike Gronski

It has been "industrial" practice in areas where explosion-proof equipment is required, that roofs, etc. allow the "blast" to go UP. I have seen videos of "garage distillers" that would make hair stand on end if I was a neighbor- kinda like the guy that blows himself making fireworks in an outbuilding and smoking. I sold a chiller system near a company substation that was placed a good 50 yards away from a chemical storage area and guess what- fumes got closeby to where an electrician made a spark and the explosion that ensued took out the substation and put the company out of business. One reason why perfumes are so expensive, the equipment looks like it's going to an Army arsenal. Keep pushing to make your industry safer!

I'm glad you keep the NYS farmers in business! (Formerly from family farm near Corning, NY) Congratulations! Mike

Just curious, whose hot oil heating unit did you use, or did you fabricate this yourself?

Great area! I used to run sales trips to NC. My Dad had a dairy farm /orchard near the wine county (Finger lakes, WNY) and I still love the hills of the Appalachins, no matter from which end. Good Luck on your adventure! Mike Gronski

Much success!! Regards, Mike Gronski MG Thermal Consulting (closed loop cooling equip) 770-995-4066

Speaking as someone who has worked for a company that made ASME vessels...I was walking by a hydro-test when a heat exchanger burst and I am SURE you wouldn't want that to happen in your shop! (It was kinda like the shell shock you hear about- people were staggering around for a bit!)

Just curious how you intend on setting up your chilled water system for the multiple tanks. Good luck!