MG Thermal Consulting

I may have a chiller going to one of these, I hope

Just shipped out to Charleston, Long Island and pretty soon Salt Lake City for a couple jobs.

Busy, Busy, but can always use more!

Richard,

It does go that way- I remember sweating bullets with a plant engineer when I sized up a chiller for chilling a huge jacketed tank filled with blood plasma!  It had to chill over a substantial range over hours of operation.  There is no way ro exactly figure it out, so we took the rough estimate and added out best extra S.F. and luckily we came out OK.  Sure didn't want to get sued and the engineer sure didn't want to get fired!

No matter what you do, there will always be the difference between theoretical and practical performance.

Manufacturers include a "safety factor" in all designs, signifying the practical application performance differences. What I have seen, more often than not, is somewhat incorrect extrapolation of performances along with sizing without testing those extrapolation values.  Of course this is for a manufacturer to decide and warranty.

Of course salesman cannot see this or they will try to argue that engineers are oversizing equipment which is why there are warranties.

As long as manufacturers live up to warranties and performances, that's the end of the conversation between supplier and user.

Everyone else's opinion is a mute point.

Oh, I haven't talked to Paul in quite a while.

I know a guy in KY but he does mainly big jobs using Vendome equipment, other guy I know is near NYC so wouldn't be able to travel to help you, but knows a ton about breweries and distilleries who can help with individual problems.

Sorry to lead you off track with Paul.

Thanks, Thatch, saved him a phone call!

Paul over MB Roland Distillery in Pembroke, KY runs an operation school every year.  I don't know where you are in OH, but he may help you on that end.

You can contact me if you need budgeting on the cooling system, if you intend on purchasing one.

Mike G

678-773-2794

Just finishing up a cooling system to satisfy the mash cooling requirement for 2000 Gal mash runs, which I hope to have photos soon.

Even if your continuous still does not need cooling, your mash cooling does, in this case a 40 ton hybrid cooler first stage and 60 ton chiller second stage cooling feeding a large shell and tube mash cooler.

If you would like information on this type system, please contact my company email.

Mike G

678-773-2794

That's a good size condenser, if that's what I'm looking at.

It seems that 20-30 GPM on the mash recirculating works out well, on the glycol/water side, roughly the same.

On 5/20/2019 at 7:59 AM, Jwalsh77 said:

 

So, we have stills (700 Gallon Stripping/300 Gallon Hybrid Pot Still), a boiler, fermentation tanks, a diaphragm pump, a small bottling line and an RO system. But really, that’s all we have at this point. We’re going to be primarily focused on whiskey production. I’m a very recent (about a month) crossover from the brewing world and have set up quite a few breweries in the past, but this isn’t very similar in my experience thus far. I could literally set up a brewery in no time, but I feel like I’m struggling here a bit with the task of identifying everything we need.  If anyone has any time, I would greatly appreciate any feedback you’re willing to provide on the following list of things that I believe we still need.  Here goes – 

·     Air Compressor/Air Dryer/Filters. 

·     Collection/Holding tanks -Low wines, Hearts, Tails, Blending?

·     Floor Scale (?).

·     Hoses (Distillery specific?).

·     Barrels.

·     Barrel Racking equipment.

·     Assorted Clamps, Gaskets, Valves, etc. 

·     Thermometers (glass/digital).

·     Hydrometer/Alcometers.

·     Filtration system – Depth or Cartridge or both?

·     Flowmeters(?).

·     Cold Liquor Tank/ Chiller(?) (Unsure if Midwest city water is cool enough year-round). 

·     Ethanol Detectors(s). 

·     Forklift/Pallet Jack

·     Distillery Software.

 

That’s where I’m currently at with this list. What did I miss? What don’t I need?  I’ve generated this list by reading hours and years’ worth of this forum, independent research and insight from the very few folks I know in the industry. I’ve done my best to do my homework before asking for your collective assistance, so hopefully this doesn’t come across as a request to be “baby birded” the info. Thanks again. 

Mashing?

Also, the cooling system- chiller, reservoir tank, water/glycol pumps pipe, valves, fittings etc.

Single pass on the mash for city water cooling (low flow, high temp diff on water), multi-pass for chiller/reservoir cooling (higher flow, low Temp diff on water side).

Be careful pumping ethanol/water solution through any kind of electrical powered unit such as a chiller- any leak forming an ethanol fume is both flammable and explosive.

 To add cooling you need a fan unit and another heat exchanger ( or coils submerged in your pond). I offer a glycol cooler with pump that works great- just ask Jesse at Trident Stills who bought one for the distillery he put up.

Amount of mash /desired set point go into calculation.  In your area (MN) I would look at an ambient glycol cooler  that will do almost all of the cooling, or enough to finish it up with your chiller or city water.

I am doing a 5000 Gal mash cooling now, using a 40 ton hybrid ambient and 60 ton chiller in two stages to get the job done.  Using 5000 reservoir (2- 2500 gal with pumps and control center. 

The cooler is a two stage device, hybrid cooler lead circuit.

Another month or so before shipment, Hope to have photos shortly after.  

For a chiller coupled to a reservoir, figure on doubling the volume of reservoir to mash. Other considerations make the reservoir larger.

The heart of the mash cooling system besides the exchanger is the refrigeration chiller and reservoir tank.

A chiller won't survive long without a reservoir unless so oversized it is an outrageous cost.

Wide gap plates are used, but only in very large systems.

Plates can be used for non-grain in wort.

Shell/tube or Concentric Tube work best.

I would check with the vendor- to activate the carbon for carbon absorbers for odor and cloudiness removal, I believe you need to go colder on you product, in the 30's F.

Depends on your purpose for the GAC.

Just curious, what temperature is your vodka before running it through the A.C.?

You'll need a cold water storage for process water if you're using a recirculating water/glycol loop if you're crashing the mash.

Locating the tank near the mash tun and fermenters is preferable. 

Around 50F supply. Control valves to set flow for each.

Depending on the size of the condenser- smaller ones have a higher leaving- 120F or more. Larger sized for 95F leaving.

Especially when you get down to cooling equipment and you've run out of cash.

I've been using them for customers that want add-ons that are energy savers for paybacks that will pay for the add-on.

We sprayed on foam then spray painted white before shipping this along with the chiller (which is on the roof).

One pump is visible - there is another and the control panel on the opposite view.

40 HP chiller + 2500 Gal chilled water reservoir.

I'll have some on ice cream with walnuts,,,

Got some chillers in stock, old stock or refurb.

Customer did a custom paint job on his pump/tank:)

Will do! 

Just did a large distillery mash cooling selection- Using a 60 Ton chiller with a two fan EMSCO glycooler vs a 100 Ton chiller is about $10,000 more on equipment but saves 37 Kw per hour energy during operation, less than one year payback.  This installation will be in the sweltering SE USA, but if I used it in the N. USA, savings would be close to 50 Kw per hr or more.

Using just a straight drycooler saves 15 Kw per hour on a 20T. system during all close to 35F operation in Utah where water is scarce.

214-0022-VIRGA_III_Vs_TAC_Comparison_Chart_WEB.pdf

I have that small air cooler that can provide cooling for the mash coil, 230/1/60, comes complete with pump. two sizes- 6 and 12 ton.

If air temp is too warm, you can finish with city water or small chiller. 

Mike G.