CountySeat

We are running fermented mash through the process with pretty good results - a thin wort with no solids. Other than the obvious standard of "won't scorch or give off flavors" is there any technical way to classify what level of clarity needs to be reach for direct heating? I.e. - can pass through X microns filter? We're trying to come up with the standard we need to meet in a laboratory setting before building a large prototype.

TIA.

These look awesome!

I have an engineer friend who is working on a design for separating the product of an on the grain fermentation prior to distillation with direct heat. I've seen a couple posts on this topic but couldn't find an ideal thread to add to.

Does anyone have a rough estimate for the density of the particles and the size of the particles that would need to be separated/filtered out? I know that will vary depending on technique but assume a coarse hammermilled grain flour; 2:1 grain to water ratio and standard milled grains, corn, rye, wheat, barley.

TIA.

We plan to use fermenters with the built in cooling coils and run water through for both crash cooling and maintaining fermentation temperature. The crash cooling is pretty easy, just turn it on and monitor temperature. What kind of systems do people typically use for maintaining fermentation temperature? We would just need something we can hook up to the coil with a thermometer so we could run the thermometer into the mash and have it automatically run water through the coils as necessary to keep temperatures down. We plan to use the open top cypress fermenters with a sift poly top (not airtight or with an airlock) to just pretty dust, etc from dropping in.

Thanks.

Thanks, that is very helpful. Two months is a little longer than I had expected. For us, we would likely seek the change while our DSP is pending. Not sure if that would make the overall delay longer or shorter.

When you filed for the change, did you already have your DSP?

We will be applying for our DSP shortly. We have pretty much set on one still but may settle on adding a second still as well. We should be in a position to know for certain if the second still will be added in about 30 days.

We'd like to file the DSP now with one serial number for a still and add a second serial number for the second still if we choose to add it. Does anyone have experience with this?

If its going to be a 90-120 process to add the second still, we may choose to wait and just apply for the DSP when we are certain of all equipment we will be using.

For those that have added equipment after getting the DSP, what was the process and how long did it take?

TIA

Any recommendations on an inexpensive 3 roller mill that can do the job for a rough flour grind for corn, wheat, rye? We'd be looking at maximum of 1800LB per day on a mashing day.

What size screen is generally recommended for a hammermil? We will be processing corn, wheat, rye and malted barley. We have access to a roller mill should we want a rougher crush for the barley but plan to mill fairly fine. We will be using a potstill.

TIA

I'd let it slide. At most, just post a link to the article with a nice correction on your Facebook or something. You aren't quoted so I'm not sure it really matters. And its not like the discrepancy is 99% versus 50%.

Wouldn't it be cheaper to just buy an extra large chest freezer, drop a stainless steel lining in and chill in there, then filter out?

http://morebeer.com/products/speidel-motorized-apple-pear-crusher.html?site_id=9

This is reasonably affordable but I haven't used it. Seems to work decently in the video but if its what you are looking for I'd try to find some who have actually used it. Maybe contact the video uploader?

You could go with a direct element heater water tank and heat the water up and then dump into a separate vessel for mashing.

Yeah - that was my thought. I have a friend who does liquor sales out in CA and he mentioned how prevalent that is. He was telling me about how some people will buy out the bar's existing stock of a product that isn't selling great to get the shelf space, give out free product, or actually pay to be on a specials list.

I had not given it much thought because I was in the camp that you mentioned where I'm happy to help the bar with events, etc but not free product or pay for shelf space.

I guess I am more curious what percentage of craft distilleries are doing those sort of things.

For those that are freeze or chill filtering your vodka, what kind of system do you use? We are looking for a relatively inexpensive system since our vodka will not be our primary product.

Thanks!

For those that have or have not used product ambassadors or hired sales people, has anyone had an experience with bars/restaurants wanting you to pay for the shelf space or pay a certain amount to be on their specials? I'm starting to hear that happens somewhat often.

We are finalizing a location that has municipal water. I went ahead and had the relatively inexpensive ($100) Whitelabs report done. I'm posting here so that 1) if anyone has expertise in this area they can let us know if there are any red flags for this water and what kind of treatment we might want to consider and 2) so that other can see the types of info you get from Whitelabs just in case others are considering the analysis.

Here are some basics about our water use:

We plan to use water both for running a cooling coil/jacket for crash cooling and keeping fermenters cool and also the same water for mashing and for use in cooling during distillation runs. So we are concerned primarily about 1) the water quality ruining equipment and 2) the water quality hurting fermentation yields or flavors in the distillate.

If it matters, we tentatively plan to run municipal water straight in the condenser and then out into a holding tank for use in mashing. The hope is to avoid having to buy a large chiller. We would probably buy a smaller chiller for use to control fermentation temperatures during the summer. We understand we would still be using more water in the condenser for distillation that we might need for mashing but the cost of water should be significantly less to start out then investing from the get go with a large chiller. Eventually we would buy a chiller.

Our analysis is attached. Thanks!

Water Analysis White Labs - Copy.pdf

Interesting.

Paul - can you do them with wood tops (to prevent dust, etc from settling in)? Added cost?

@Panoscape. Thanks. We are tenatively planning to use direct electric for the second distillation but was curious if anyone had bad results or better results with a second distillation using steam.

Would there be any difference in using direct heating elements for a second distillation of low wines? I assume that once the low wines are made (perphaps in a larger steam heated still), a smaller directly heated or electric element set up would work. Thoughts?

Agreed. I'm more in the "rising tide raises all boats" camp. My general concern is when the industry will reach a limit of craft distilleries and the novelty will wear off. For example (I'll pick a city at random), if you're the first distiller in Baltimore that makes gin and you go to sell to a Baltimore bar that has Tangueray, Plymouth and Beefeater on its shelf, you stand a good chance of getting stocked and maybe promoted by bartenders. You're the local gin. My concern is when there are 3 or 4 local gins, do they all just get lost in the shuffle (no one is THE local guy) and will consumers gravitate to the big brands. Obviously, the market share of craft distillers is still so comparatively low that market any decent market penetration is a huge plus but I think the challenge is having the consumer buy into "craft spirits are better" or at least different enough to be routinely purchased. Even though I understand microbrews are still only a small part of the market share, at least by my observations, they seem to have sold consumers on the quality of their collective products to stake a foothold.

Is anyone using the Black Swan Honeycombs variety? If so, how did you like the results?

Also, for Black Swan, has anyone used both the Black Swan Standard and Traditional varieties and noticed a difference? We are look at all three of their varieties.

Thanks!

You need to solicit a legal opinion from the PLCB. They typically will not co-license a premises but there are exceptions.

http://www.lcbapps.lcb.state.pa.us/webapp/legal/PublicAdvOpnDisplay.asp?opinion_year=2014&opinion_sequence=54

I've had barrels leak and its always been when I didn't cure them enough. Now I will fill them and let them sit with warm water until they swell up. I had one that leaked on one end similar to your pictures. I just let it go and it sealed itself up in about 4 days. I didn't hose it down but that's a great idea.