johnb

What kind of a ratio do any of you use? the way I understand it, and please correct me if I am wrong. Your are adding back to your next ferment batch some of what I have been sending to the pig farmer after a stripping run. This backset helps keep the PH from dropping too much & adds nutriments for the fresh yeast to thrive. Is that is correct? Some are stirring it in just before pitching yeast and some are adding it around the time you add your malted barley. (155*) how much do you use? All said and done I have 300 gallons of wash when I pitch. Suggestions? Thank you,

Easy there boys. We all have our opinions. We are all big kids and can make our own decisions based on what we think will work best for ourselves. And mostly we all have different learning styles. Some, like myself learn by experimentation and doing. Others have a real gift imo to process the information in their head and are able to put it into practice without the time and cost of that experimentation. There are success stories & failures on both sides of that ledger. Dehner: I too have nothing bad to say about the hillbilly still column (except I think the name could be improved) it is, what it is, and actually is making a very nice product that sells, and sells again. For me that's the point. I started too small and now can not keep up with those sales (what a wonderful problem!) Your points are well taken, a bit of all of the above you wrote are in order for me. Take it to the next level as it were. I have a lot of homework ahead before a final decision is made. Thank you for your input. Good rubber meets the road stuff. I didn't want to go too big, or not big enough (again) That's why I chimed in on this thread in the first place. All of you have helped me in your own way. I now have a pretty good idea to narrow down my scope of investigation and purchase. What ends up working for me certainly wont work for everyone. Then again it doesn't have to. In the end, you all have pointed me in the same direction. Steve: I re-read what I wrote. I do get where you are coming from. Each of us are individuals with different learning styles. I wish I had your gift of understanding. My comments directed at you were a might snarky. Perhaps I am the one that needs a nap. Merry Christmas everyone. JB

James: chuckle........politicians......chuckle chuckle again...I'm not the only one. Thank you for the input. I was not a chemistry major but I do have a grasp and understandings of the concepts. Thanks again for having the courage to actually have a few suggestions for me to investigate further and chew on. I understand the risk you just took trying to help and quite possibly taking pot shots for the effort. Bless you. Steve: Thank you for trying as well. I am afraid that much was above my head. Oh and btw, I have a DSP, I have a respectable operation and am doing my best to be better than I presently am. I am not a hobbyist. I really do respect your knowledge, I do desire to improve mine as well. That said, I am sorry that you are tired. Perhaps a nap is in order? (no offence intended)

OK.........you're both pretty. But you both sound like a couple of politicians. The OP asked a "general" question. you've gone on and on about what you believe to be correct but not even given a hint of an actual answer. Yes some more info to give a precise answer was needed. Obviously neither I or the OP has the kind of knowledge that you both posses. your responses to us have been rather demeaning rather than offering any kind of help. I don't imagine he was asking for the all perfect answer. He just wanted something like: " This diameter / height column with this many plates or what ever you think would work (or so) to make this product and maybe even offer a recommendation for a product that requires something totally different". So here is my layout at this time. Please don't spend a pile of time telling me how I was a fool to do what I have done, I am looking to improve. My operation works. I think it can be better. I have been open a little over a couple months now. I currently make Vodka like so many do and white whiskey that comes off at 175 to 180 proof. Now before anyone goes off about how that ain't Whiskey, the TTB says it's so, I report it as such. The Yankee pallet doesn't seem to be fond of 140 proof white dog so I make what people in my neck of the wood like and are willing to buy (more than once) so let's stay on task. As I said before, I strip 300 gallons and get 50 ish gallons of low wines (30 to 35% ABV) I have two of those Groen pots I mentioned earlier. on one I have a 4" Hillbilly stills 4 plate column. It works well for the White Whiskey with the dephrag up and with it low I can get the proof down so that I can actually have a product to put in a barrel as well. On the other I have the same thing but there are 8 plates / sight glasses and I can make 190. Both make a good product that I have had no problem selling and even in such a short time repeat customers. I'm kinda excited about that. The challenge is that they are very slow. 24 to 28 hours to do a Vodka run and 16 to 18 for Whiskey. I have flooded each them once by over powering them. So that leads me to believe that I have adequate HP in heat to accommodate larger columns. I would be delighted to have a dozen answers & the why's. That's the beauty of the forum. The exchange of ideas and then make up your own mind what is best for you. So, now you know my present set up, I am actually looking at two columns to make two products, two stills. I like the sight windows, they look cool and impress customers when in action. If I can I would like to distill my low wines in something like 10 to 16 hours (or less). 28 hours of sleeping for 45 minutes at a time in order to check head temp taste etc just isn't going to be good long term for me. Is that enough info to get a rough idea of what size hole I will be putting in my pots? I know there are probly a thousand answers to my question, I'm just looking for the first couple that come to mind. I realize there is no perfect solution.

This is an interesting read. Lets say I had a 60 gallon Groen soup pot. I filled the jacket with oil, had 3- 4500w elements (13500w total) installed in the pedestal base reservoir to heat the oil. The diameter of the surface of the liquid is 36" and I fill it with 50 ish gallons low wines that are 30 to 35% ABV. I am very interested to hear your estimates on what size of hybrid column I should have put on there, and why. Thanks.

Hi Roger, It's not the boiler that is surging. It is actually preforming very well. I will be adding a water softener to the supply line to it to reduce the mineral build up along with a regular drain & rinse program to better maintain it. The boiling surge is in the spirit still. There are 3 elements in the pedestal base. It is a Groen steam jacketed pot that we run oil in the jacket with heating elements in the pedestal base. I was running just two of them. The best theory I have at the moment is that the two that were closest together were on and that created a hot spot so when the elements cycled that one area of the pot was hotter than the rest. You'd think that the oil would disperse that heat somewhat evenly being mounted down in the base but it's the only thing that really makes any sense. Once things are all cooled down I will go through the process again with all three elements on. If the surging persists it will be back to the drawing board. Here's hoping, and thank you all for the input. JB

No, there wasn't any foaming, the water cut off is working properly as well. I did not notice an excess of water used either. Infection is always a possibility. There are 3 heating elements in the oil, I only had on two. Could be possible that created an uneven heat but they are all down low and a good 6 to 10" from the wash, but anything is possible. I had turned one off because the oil temp was being maintained according to the thermometer with only two of them cycling. The learning curve is steep at this point with new equipment. Here's what I do. Let me know if I am goofing up somewhere? I mash, ferment, and strip in the same vessel. I use mostly wheat. Take it up to 185* for an hour then remove the steam pipes from the tank and wash them, let air dry. let the mash cool down to 155 add malted barley and let for an hour. I have about 16 brix at that point. I have found that if it sits overnight that the brix gets up to 18. In the morning I cool it to pitching temp, keep it at a happy temp (cooling coil to prevent overheating) till the brix are down and she assumes room temp. Next, put the steam tubes back in heat her up and strip. I have been getting about 55 gallons of 30 to 35% ABV in my stripping runs. That's the wines that go into my 60 gallon spirit still.

A rose by any other name is still a rose ( or a spade LOL!) You are exactly right James That is just what is happening. I am implementing a program of doing a cook then a strip then dump the water and rinse then see if things improve. my production volume dropped drastically, I am thinking that all that excess mineral deposits were playing havoc on my fermentation. It was strange though. By all appearances the ferment went well. The drop in brix was pretty much the same, the stripping run came out about the same volume and ABV. But on the spirit run it went from heads to tails way way faster with very little hearts yield. Then the wash in the pot began to boil in surges rather than evenly. I didn't change any settings, (It is a 60 gallon oil bath pot) it was going along well for 2 hours then poof, the boil became un-even. Any thought on that? Boiling water is quite dangerous under any pressure. Thank you for the warning. I respect it greatly. For what it's worth, the workmanship is quite good on my "Home grown boiler" there is a float valve to ensure it does not boil dry and 5 psi pressure and vacuum valve plus another ball valve in the lyne arm so that I can release any pressure before I open any manway or something else. I have gauges to monitor temp and pressure inside the tank. Do you have any suggestions as to something else that I am not aware of that I should implement?

I have steam injection. I noticed that the water in the steam making tank, I don't refer to it a a boiler because the pressure is so low. I have a 5 lb blow off/ vacuum valve on it and a 3" stainless lyne arm that the steam flows through to my 300 gallon mash tanks. Any way. the water in there looks milky after a couple of runs. Should I be concerned about this? I have just dumped it out every so often, Should I change it out after every boil? I have only run 8 batches so far. The first two turned out VERY well. Subsequent batches not as well. Thoughts anyone? Thanks, JB

She "found" the exception. Now we are good to go.

Yea I know. This sounds ridiculous but here I am. Yes lots of breweries and wineries too. She says this is not regulated as a flammable or combustible but is regulated as a hazardous material. Is a 7% mash considered a hazardous material? Low wines under 20% for that matter? (Sorry about all the other posts. It kept saying that it timed out and didn't go through.)

My fire marshal is a great gal and easy to get along with but she is telling me now this: The mash and low wine storage are potentially hazardous and combustible liquids based on the percentage of alcohol by volume. Class IIIC No control areas In gallons No control area with cabinets In gallons Each control area with cabinet. In gallons In open production 80 (this is the reduction amount, not the starting gallons) 80 (this is the reduction amount, not the starting gallons) 80 (this is the reduction amount, not the starting gallons) In storage 250 in open 330 in cabinets, 250 in open 330 in cabinets, 250 in open with production or 330 when no production is within the area Total Gallons 330 660 240 Class II liquids have a flash point between 100F and 140F that would equate to less than 20% by volume of alcohol. (from Factory Mutual Report on Distilleries) Class III A liquids have a flash point above 140F to 200F that would equate to 7% by volume of alcohol. Class III B liquids have a flash point above 200F that would equate to 5% or less by volume of alcohol. Combustible liquids that do not meet the exceptions for storage as noted above are limited to: Class II liquids are limited to 120 gallons in storage or in a closed use system and limited to 30 gallons in an open use system. Class IIIA liquids are limited to 330 gallons storage or in a closed use system and limited to 80 gallons in an open use system. Class IIIB liquids are limited to 13200 gallons storage or in a closed use system and limited to 3300 gallons in an open use system. I can only have 330 gallons of 7% mash on hand at one time? and only 120 gallons of low wines (19%) ? I have been hunting the IFC codes and think I have found a couple of things but could really use some advice from those more experienced with chapter and verse to convince her otherwise.

I will be having an F-1 occupancy. My fire marshal is telling me that the MAQ on fermented wort of 7% is only 330 gallons (as a class 3A liquid) and low wines of 19% is120 gallons (class 2 liquid). Is she correct? I was under the understanding that anything under 20% that MAQ's didn't apply, or were not included in the MAQ. Thanks, John.

I will be having an F-1 occupancy. My fire marshal is telling me that the MAQ on fermented beer at 7% is 330 gallons (classified as a 111A liquid) and low wines of 19% only being able to store 120 gallons (as a class11 liquid). Is she correct? I was under the understanding that liquids under 20% were exempt from MAQ's. Thanks, John.

tipk99, Did you try it? If you did how did things turn out?