Les Trois Clocher

I am also curious about this passivation step. The citric acid "renews" the metal surface like it does to copper? there is a build-up we are trying to avoid or are we strengthening the metal? I would love to learn more about this. Regular maintenance is always a good idea I just want to understand what exactly it is doing

very interested as well. could you send me the btus of this boiler. vincent.w.vanhorn@gmail.com

can you pm me some pictures?

We are having long fermentation times. Our pH starts around 4.5-4.8 and quickly drops to 3.5. We use a Dark brown sugar wash with yeast nutrients. We are thinking the low pH is causing our yeast to struggle . We are thinking of adding sodium bicarbonate or magnesium oxide, or some sort of food grade base. What do you guys think. Any experience with this? I can give cell counts if that helps. Thank you for your time

ok so I guess no one uses them or it is one of those things people don't talk about... like chaptalization in wine a lot of ppl do it but no one dare emit it to their customer, just doesn't sound romantic I have no experience but these are options that I know of, -Carboxyl methyl cellulose (adds viscosity and suspends insoluble material in liquors) - Hydroxypropyl cellulose (viscosity addition, stabilizer and emulsifier) 0.2-1.0% -glycerin I'm sure there are more out there... (Will have to look into the solubility of other texture modifiers/stabilizers in alcohol) Anyone willing to share experience?

I would also macerate it in stronger alcohol, it will be more efficient at extracting the aroma components. Maybe give it a couple of days to macerate then dilute to redistill it.

ok so if you want it to be a clear liquor, know that you are only getting the aroma notes from the cacao. Therefore the fat content is more less irrelevant (will not distill over, too large molecular weight). I might think a vapor extraction (gin style) might be efficient to get the aromas out. If not a maceration should work, you just need to do trials to figure out your peak flavor profile. Too much cacao will saturate/ taste meh and cost more... So yia play around with it, but I would think anything cacao source should be able to get you those aroma notes (smell it and see if the base ingredient is pungent... should work) ... cacao butter is worth a decent amount of money (it melts at body temperature hence the amazing mouth feel, so producers love to use it in specialty foods) so anything low fat (it's been removed) should be cheaper and work just as well for you.

Do any of you use finning agents in your herbal liquors? I assume they would be the same as for regular alcohol because to my knowledge ethanol content shouldn't effect their efficiency at settling out particles... Does anyone use finning agents to held clerify their macerated liquors? If so what seems to be your favoright? Bentonite, gelatins, agar?

Do any of you use texture modifiers such as carboxyl methyl cellulose to stabilize your product while also slightly increasing viscosity/ mouth-feel? On that note do you use any additives to help your liquor products? Either to stabilize or improve them

how far north are you? If temperature isn't a huge concern (because it's cold out anyways) then a storage area might not be that big a deal if you plan to have time to use them all before the end of winter. Big container with thermometers controlling airflow (when colder outside then in swap the air...cooling your apples) It's been a while since i studied this but I don't think ethylene (plant ripening hormone) is a big deal for a apples... but if it is then you will have to consider ways to keep track and reduce it...again air circulation. Do people around you make ice-ciders? if it's anything like where i am you can just put in bins outside (protected from animals of course) and wait to freeze... might even create a great product (concentrating the aromas and sugars before fermentation) you can do stability tests now using store bought apples (or better straight from orchards) to see how they last with minimal effort in your climat. Maybe ask around orchards to see how they store their apples

you need to look into emulsifiers and structural agents for this kind of product... There are a lot of alternatives out there but to produce a susessfull product you can sell I would say it is nessesary... Then mix the cream (or milk/hydrocolloid mixture you decide on) with the alcohol... if you want to add other flavors (such as chocolate) I would macerate it in the alcohol before-hand and you might need some carageenan or something of that sort to keep it in suspension. basically to produce a good cream liquor I would say study your additive chemistry or else it will separate or have a less then perfect texture profile (very important here) Also you probably don't want to use pure cream these days since it's expensive and people are health conscious but then again that could be your thing...

....for practical reasons I think double distilling makes the most sense to a small producer with limited space and that avoids nasty flavors developing in your wines as they wait. (though a little might be nice haha like the sour ales... might add some character to the final product) 5-8% alcohols aren't incredibly stable so the longer you wait the more impact it will have on the flavor chemistry (generally 6months I would think isn't that big of a deal though...but keep an eye on it and keep tasting regularly (as Im sure you do...best part of this field )

sadly the truth of the matter is that science is still chasing after tradition and trying to understand it all. Flavor chemistry is very complicated. The involved aromatic compounds will react with each other at each step of production and therefore they all will impact the final aroma and taste created. if you know the chemical structure of the concerned compounds you can see what fraction will separate from ethanol (basically your heart) more easily. basically figure out your cuts according to your equipment parameters. More complex flavors can be created if you keep larger cuts with less "purity" but that doesn't necessarily mean you get the flavors you want... fermentation and treatments in fermentation itself will have a big contributing factor as well. There is just so many factors to think of...so yia in the end you need to just developed a style and go with it. There is also treatments you can do afterwards (like soaking a small amount of fresh fruit in the liquor to extract the fresh completely un-reacted aroma compounds from there. More research is needed but well quite frankly analytically equipment is very expensive and flavor compounds come in very minute concentrations so detecting them is extremely hard, not to mention being able to correlate what compound causes what fraction of perceived flavor since flavor perception does not necessarily equal to chemical presence in solution... here is some links to articles.. but no one (that I know of) really has a clear cut answer to all this (I wish I could attache the actual files, I get them through school... its amazing how expensive articles can be...erg free knowledge is key to advancement) http://pubs.acs.org/doi/full/10.1021/jf047788f http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1745-4530.2005.00377.x/abstract http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12517106 http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1745-4530.2008.00251.x/abstract http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1745-4530.2005.00377.x/abstract

Jedd, do you care to share the parameters you used in your trials? what kind of oak chips, how much and for how long? did the bad taste give a kind of super drying sensation to your mouth? (caused by way to much tannin action) I've heard it's better to stick to a lower amount of chips for a longer time then more chips shorter time since it takes time for the nicer flavors to come out. At the vineyard we always age a smaller portion of the wine with chips then blend.

interesting, because I've been told the same thing for wine. The slight oxidation that occurs due to the barrel breathing helps the flavor of the product. That being said on small scale production the difference doesn't outweigh the extra effort needed to handle the barrels (keeping them flush and rotating/ maintaining them.) I wounder if you just left some head space in the tank or bubble a small amount of air through the product from time to time you could achieve the same result... That being said barrel aging is by far more romantic and much better when doing larger production scales since they don't use up possible fermenters does no one do this?

I've always thought it would be awesome to build an anaerobic digester and produce some methane to help run the still from the spent grain while producing good fertilizer to help grow the crop... very expensive to set-up and a hole lot of paperwork but I think in the long run might be worth it. Anyone doing this?

Do any of you age your brandy using oak chips rather then barrels? I know it is very common among small vineyards so was curious if small brandy producers might do this as well. Is so do you follow the same rule as wine (2-10g/l)?

I want to "neutralize" the alcohol/ remove impurities and flavor notes. I plan to use stone carbon (0.4-1.4mm) as it is better for regeneration and doesn't have to same chance of leaving a residue as carbon from coconut shells leave. I plan to use loose charcoal and remake the filter bed each time I use it then regenerate it using heat. the spools look like a good sturdy casing, what short of valve do you use to control the flow rate? I was also wondering about alternatives to stainless steel casings since I have a very limited budget to do this with.

I am trying to construct a pilot distillery and wish to make a carbon filter (38mm in diameter and 1.5m long, the minimum effective size). I was woundering how important the material used to make the carbon filter was? In an ideal world I would make it all out of stainless but I was woundering what alternatives are out there.

My name is Vincent Van Horn. I am about to finish my bachelors in food science at McGill next semester and am currently seeking an internship in a small distillery to gain more production experience specific to distilleries. I am available as of January 2014. My professional experience includes:- brief internships at 5 micro-breweries in Denmark one micro-brewery in Montreal, six months at the Lallemand BRI yeast lab in Montreal doing quality control and propagation on the beer and wine yeast my current employment at a small vineyard in Dunham Quebec. I have completed the Siebel concise course in brewing technology and have been obsessed in the production of different alcohols for many years now. I regularly experiment with new beer, wine and spirit recipes. As I am sure most of you understand this is an ongoing evolution of projects and discoveries. I am interested in all sorts of whiskey production, herbal liquors, brandy and from farm to bottle production. I would like to be able to be involved in all phases of the production of spirits. Having seen the differences that exist in small backyard/home scale production and marketable production in beer and wine has made me appreciate the value of hands on experience with larger production scales and thus inspired me to search out for this internship to help me get fully comfortable with distillation practices. Thank you for your time Vincent Van Horn my official resume and several references are available upon request vavavince@hotmail.com 514-518-6299

good job chipping away at that myth, People still seem to think absinthe will make you trip like mad, amazing what marketing can implant in the popular cultures mind.

... sorry for the multi post...

Someone recently told me that grape leafs taste great in liquors. I'm not sure if I truly trust this source but I'm curious and can't seem to find any other information on it. Since I have access to a crazy amount of grape leafs to experiment with it I will play around with it this summer but I was curious if any of you have heard something similar or have any experience with it.

also make sure you fully understand re-distillation techniques before you do this...

no worries Firefighter, The sharing of knowledge is how we all learn! I love this stuff and crave outlets to talk about it and use my knowledge haha sorry I used the wrong abbreviation haha the first recipe calls for a 95 litter batch @ 85%abv and the second for a 570 litters @85%abv plus 300 litters of water (you can calc the abv of that maceration) since your in canada I would say I've had good luck working with ritchers http://www.richters.com/ for herbs. They are kinda expensive but good quality stuff. There might be a closer supplier to you though. This summer we will be growing a large amount of spices for the use of alcohol flavoring (including wormwood among like 10-15 others depending on how they take to our soil/climat) . Since we are still in our development stages we aren't probably going to use it all so if you contact me around the end of summer I can sell you some at a good price.