Collin

Amazing.

To be fair 22, I am a student of policy... I have a masters in Public Policy so that is what I do. And I didn't mean that this should be enforced on a state or federal level, I was thinking more of a professional organization offering certification like... say... ADI? It would be reminiscent of any professional organization that offers certification. It isn't mandated by law, but shows that you know what you are doing. Helps get investors etc. And yes, I know that there are such certifications available from other organizations, but they aren't widely used in my experience (in the US craft distilleries at least).

Thanks John. Much appreciated. Looks like I need to do some experimenting myself.

This, to me, promotes the idea of some sort of certification process that should be recommended/necessary for running a distillery... It seems (though as all have said their is incomplete information here) that they didn't really know what they were doing, but wanted to be "bootleggers" like their grand papa. A lack of knowledge, know-how and common sense seem to have lead to this... and unfortunately someone did get injured. I hope he gets well, though serious burns will leave permanent scarring. I will note that I never attended a course for distilling, instead learning from our head distiller who did. Also, we run a Carl.

John, how would you describe the "flavor profile". I don't know how you are set up, but if you do multiple distillations how did it taste/smell on your first/second. Did you notice a difference in the vodka over other grains? Thanks.

I am going to go out on a limb and say this number is variable based on a lot of factors. It really comes down to what your sales/marketing strategy is, and business plan. Some variables I can think of off the top of my head. Sales force. If you have people out pounding the pavement every day you are going to move through product faster. If you let it happen more organically (direct sales, people coming to you) they will be greatly reduced. Location. If you are in/right outside a major city center or tourist attraction you will get a lot more foot traffic and support from the "drink local" crowd. Production capacity. If you are doing this part time, or are using a small apparatus you will be producing a lot less, or you will be spending much more time in producing what you do -- taking away from the time that you have to sell. Product line up. If you are selling one product you will not have as much as if you sell 2, 3, 4 etc. With that said, we sold between 500 and 1000 cases. (Sorry I can't be more exact, we switched billing systems half way through the year.)

Thanks Curtis. If you ever find yourself in the Hudson Valley of New York make sure to stop by.

Does anyone have any experience with grains other then rye, corn, wheat, barley? I saw that Koval/Lion's Pride has released an oat, millet and a spelt whiskey. I have yet to try any of them, but am greatly intrigued. These are not your common ingredients. So does anyone have any taste profiles on these grains, or experience working with them? I am just curious about their viability because of the recent increase in grain prices. It may be a good time to diversify. Any information would be greatly appreciated. Cheers.

What Paul said is my experience as well. All of our online retailers have a brick and mortar shop that is supplemented by the online sales. http://www.drinkupny.com is a good example of this. The liquor store is Borisal and they are located in Brooklyn, but (by what they say) they can send nationwide via online orders.

I believe I know who this is in regards to. He doesn't have a DSP yet, he has just talked to enough TTB agents that he got one to say it was allowable. So, nothing official yet Jonathan.

My understanding is that they were popular in Europe long ago. Specifically during harvest time, it was a way for farmers to utilize their crop and maximize profits. It generally created Brandies, grappas and cognacs. I don't think it is particularly common today. As for its legality in the US... who knows.

I don't believe that there is a minimum. Someone correct me if I am wrong.

I am interested to see where this discussion goes. I wish I could input more, but I don't have the scientific know-how...

I would say Technique would be the best place to post a thread about gluten free stuff. Could be wrong, but seems the best suited to me.

Thanks for keeping us informed Chuck -- I honestly don't have the time to distill, work my second job AND search through all the press releases to find out about new products -- so its nice to have you post them up here when relevant. I read it as HH saying they are the only ones to make all of the above.... Still, shoddy. Bob, let me know when you guys come out with the wheat whiskey, I would love to try some and its only 2.5 hours to Boston from here. Thanks.

From my experience (as a self distributing entity) it really pays to build a good relationship with key customers. Our distillery has 4 people that basically do everything including sales. In my experience its the fact that we make it, we push it ourselves that gets us on a lot of high quality shelves. I have talked to a LOT of owners that hate to deal with the big guys, and move their products over to get us on the shelf. With that said, there are some owners that are the exact opposite of that. They ignore us outright, or give us the run around. That is the way it is -- some people are interested in supporting the craft industry, others just want to sell the high yield "main stream" brands to make a buck. That is fine, I am not going to say they are bad people because of that, its just that you need to know your product and the market you appeal to. I have taken to researching stores as best I can before I actually contact them and try to open the account. It is a waste of my time to try to pitch a store that doesn't carry anything but smirnoff. But it is a huge advantage to be carried by a store whose owner and staff believes in our product/new york distillers and is willing to hand sell it. Just my two cents.

Thanks guys, this topic has been really interesting, and has inspired me to look into yeast production a lot more. Here at Harvest Spirits we have been using dried yeast with pretty good results -- but I would love to see what types of yeast are on the apples out in our orchards. Looks like its time to start more experiments.

This is an excellent discussion. Thanks cowdery, Delaware and all else for participating, it has been very interesting reading through it. With that said, I think it is important to differentiate ourselves from the big guys. Someone mentioned that we can push the boundaries, and that is exactly what we need to do. "Extreme distilling" as we jokingly refer to it at the distillery, seems to be missing to a certain extent with the big guys. Part of it is because pushing boundaries often doesn't help the profit margin on such a large scale. A lot of new and exciting things take a hand sell, or millions of dollars. The hand sell from a craft distiller may be enough to support him, but the millions spent on advertising might never pay off for the big guys. We are able to find niches that they might never be able to exploit because of their set up. So, lets try new things, experiment and find those niches that we need. Whiskey is a category that could use a little mix up. (I generalize about the experimenting. I know there are some that do it such as Woodford's new Maple finished bourbon,but on a smaller scale we can still do many more different things).

Thoughts and prayers for Ralph and his family. If you guys need anything from us at Harvest Spirits, let me know. We are probably one of the closest to you... Stay strong and God speed.

I have done this before, and had family and friends do it too. People seem mostly helpless when they enter a liquor store, and anyone in a position that seems to know what they are talking about are able to educate and influence purchasing selection. Its always fun, and I have done it not only for the products I help create, but many New York made spirits. I would rather see someone buy a NY spirit then anything else, so even if they aren't looking for what I peddle, then I try to steer them toward the most local option in their selected category.

It is interesting that it is "distinctive" taste. I would say our vodka has an ambiguous sweetness to it because it is distilled from apples, but I would never say that the taste is distinctly apples, or distinctly anything for that matter. As has been said, everyone's taste is different and quantifying levels of taste are hard... but even the definition is relatively ambiguous. Is sweet a distinct taste, or does it have to be sweet like apples? And thanks Ralph for clarifying the point and correcting me eloquently. I am not a DSP holder, so less involved with the more legal definitions... (though i do work at a licensed distillery as assistant distiller etc...)

Correct me if I'm wrong, isn't the definition "nearly tasteless" and colorless? I could be wrong, but that was always my understanding... A vodka that has that slight characteristic of what it was made from will fall under nearly tasteless... We make a vodka from apples that has an aroma but really doesn't have much of that flavor other then maybe a slight difference from a normal vodka. Just my 2 cents.

This is a little scary. I agree that we really need to get our act together -- they apparently see craft distillers as a threat, otherwise they wouldn't be trying to co-opt the category. Sort of like how the big beer guys bought out a lot of the craft brewers to expand their product lines and keep relevant. Vodka is already a crowded category... This will be interesting. Can't wait to see a craft "small batch" vodka available throughout the world... >.<

I sent in an e-mail today. Not sure how effective it will all be, but it is necessary. In too many industries are short cuts being taken at the expense of quality or tradition. It needs to stop somewhere -- and this happens to be the industry I'm in, so why not voice my opinion to "the man".

Same at our distillery. Stripping with less -- otherwise the stripping runs would take forever -- then finish with 2 distillations on 20 something.