Silk City Distillers

I agree with ASD. I have a thing for bacteria. I'm successfully propagating a number of non-yeast bacteria - a few selected strains of lactobacillus and as well as a specific propionibacterium and clostridium strain. Took a while to work out the specific starter formulas and propagation methods, and find sources for the right strains, but it's working well. The procedure is similar to a stepped yeast starter, albeit somewhat more complex. Unlike wood, with this approach you can control for specific bacterial strains, and introduce them at specific points in the process. Imagine if by chance you got the perfect blend of bacteria, got a fantastic series of batches, and then some rookie dumps sanitizer in the wood tank. The magic is done, it's all gone. Likewise, with a brand new tank, what guarantees you inoculation with the right bacteria and not the wrong bacteria? Nothing. Why leave it up to chance? It's about time bacteria got the limelight.

Scanned through the rupture discs, the most interesting are the SaniTRX versions, since they are built into what looks like a triclamp gasket, meaning it can be placed in a standard triclamp joint for the pipe size, no fancy housings. I buy a lot of surplus, but unless the thing is boxed and sealed, I'd be wary. There are guys asking $100+ for rupture disks that look like they've been unwrapped, in the bottom of a junk drawer for 3 years.

So leave your stainless tanks and hoses dirty, you'll have no problem creating a unique bacterial biome... Perhaps you'll be lucky enough to pick up a nice terroir, maybe even a marketing story around it? Think of all the money saved, until Swamp Thing comes crawling out of your fermenter and terrior turns into terror. For those who have spent some time with non-yeast bacteria, you'll remember that the source of Clostridium in old rums was fecal matter.

The problem is these guys are just grabbing a water heater/hydronic boiler pressure relief valve, the 60psi variants are low pressure relief for water heaters (which usually take 150psi). They are also completely the wrong PRV. If you don't know the difference, you grab the PRV and think you are safe. I also like the Apollo 5psi valve, but I've been trying to keep an eye on something sanitary that doesn't cost an absolute fortune. I'd like to be able to routinely disassemble the PRV and be able to inspect it and clean as necessary. I get worried that occasional foam-up in the boiler will cause caking/residue that the CIP can't reach to clean.

Why not just pick up something like this?

You know, it's not so far fetched to think that the Ferrari is probably the more rational investment...

Honestly, try the Sebflo-TL first, it works like a charm. If you are trying to use these to lauter, good luck, you'll need it. If you want to hop over the river into Jersey, I have 100ml for you.

Beta Glucanase you can easily get small quantities from Sherman - http://www.enzymash.com/ Pentosanase - Are you talking about something like a Xylanase enzyme that would be used in commercial baking?

I wouldn't cut the top off that thing, it's a beautiful looking tank. You'd likely lose the agitator mount, which is also a big plus, and will make fab'ing or mounting an agitator very easy.

Oil? We fire with oil. In a pinch we ran on diesel.

We're doing the same thing. However - Direct steam injection is our approach, but we've got filtered steam so it makes that easy. Can't comment on the elements, only be sure you do the math on heating before you invest the money. You don't want to be in a position where it takes you 8 hours to get to boiling. 200 gallons, from 75F to 212F, in one hour will take 80kw. That's 300 amps on a 240v service - probably beyond your service capacity. Moving down to 30kw (125 amps) - now you are going to need about 3 hours to heat. One good alternative is to use an on-demand hot water heater like a Rinnai or Noritz. They have a high btu gas-fired commercial model that will get near 170-180F output. It will probably save you hours of time every mash. On the motor - don't look for a milk tank replacement motor, they are too small, too slow, and too expensive. Instead retrofit a washdown motor and gear reduction for the agitator, use the existing paddle. It's going to take some fabrication and welding. If you can't fab, there is a good chance you can find a nice Lightnin' mixer on the surplus market. Look for something 1/2-3/4 hp. Another thing to keep in mind is the insulation on these milk tanks is very good, with the tops on, don't for one second think you are cooling from cook temperatures to malt temps, to pitch temps, in any reasonable amount of time - you will need some sort of active cooling. Our Mueller holds temps very well, something like 1-2F drop per hour.

Steam trumps water - on a straight btu to btu comparison, water is going to be substantially slower, or if your still jacket is not appropriate, water may not even work at all. If water was easier than steam, we'd not have had 300 years of industrial steam use. There are commercially available ASME rated solid fuel (aka wood) steam boilers. I would wager a bet that they would be significantly more expensive than oil or gas counterparts. Really though, don't waste your money on a hydronic boiler. Is it that you don't have natural gas at your location?

I'm trying to find out how to show an inspector that the pot still is an open system and has minimal pressure. The compressor idea is an interesting one from a practical perspective. However, most inspectors understand pressure relief valves, especially when bearing the certification marks required in specific jurisdictions. Those are devices they see every single day. You can find PRVs bearing the approval marks as low as, or in some cases lower than, 5psi. I'm talking about for the still boiler proper, not the jacket, which will likely be 15psi. You can make the case that the system can't hold pressure, and it could be a logical argument, but realize that inspectors aren't engineers, and it isn't up to them to determine the merits of your argument. But a low pressure relief valve bearing a mark (ASME, etc) - That is a language that these guys speak. If you want to look like you have your stuff together, plumb the relief line to a safe outdoor location (so you aren't trading a dangerous pressure situation for a dangerous vapor situation). These guys are busy, it's not their job to know how distillation equipment works, or to spend the time to figure it out. By the way, the fact that a system is "open" by our definition, doesn't mean it can't build pressure if the equipment fails. Imagine a condenser bracket weld breaks, the weight of the condenser pulls the vapor piping and kinks it shut. Now you don't have an open system. Recent events should be clear in all our minds.

Our still (and surrounding area) is Class I Division 1 Group D by our own decision. Agitator motor is explosion proof, rigid conduit, sealing glands, etc etc. We removed all other extraneous electrical from the area. However, with regards to NEMA 7 enclosures, we found it more cost effective and realistic to move controls and other electrics outside of the classified area (rigid conduit is cheaper than enclosures). For example, the VFD for the still agitator is outside of the classified area in a standard metal enclosure. Key thing to realize is that removing non-essential wiring, fixtures, plugs, etc is going to be significantly more cost effective than trying to replace them with their classified counterparts. Things like RTD temperature sensors and pressures sensors are also classified or in classified enclosures, along with intrinsic barriers at the controllers. We've got combustible gas monitors with interlocks to shut down everything but the condenser water flow.

Try adding some silicone antifoam on your next strip, or potentially dial back the power. Are you running a visually-closed system?

Puking?

Dave, I've got 2" TC to 2" Male NPT and 1.5" TC to 1.5" Male NPT. I could have sworn I had a couple pieces of the mismatch combo, but I can't seem to find them. If you can make either of these work let me know and I'll send you out one. I can measure up the 1.5" TC and see if you can cut it and weld on a 2" ferrule (I have a bunch of those too).

Have a few hours free tomorrow afternoon/evening in Denver - anyone around? Was hoping to pop into a distillery or two but nobody seems to have any open hours posted on their websites.

Yeah I believe I have a few, how many do you need?

Assuming there are no obvious design flaws (highly unlikely on a Vendome), it's one of two things: Steam pressure too high on the kettle, too much power input causing vapor speeds in excess of design. This causes entrainment flooding which is commonly associated with top plate flooding (tiny droplets of distillate get carried upwards with the vapor). Dephlegmator/Reflux condenser temperature too low - this would increase the volume of reflux being generated and can overwhelm the ability for plates to drain (mentioned above). There is a kind of balancing act that you need to get a feel for. If your dephlegmator temperature is too low, you might find yourself needing to increase the kettle pressure to compensate for the higher reflux ratio. But, if you don't need the higher reflux ratios, it would be much easier to adjust by running a higher dephlegmator temperature. Do you have any kind of dephlegmator temperature monitoring or control (thermostatic valves)? If you did not, your system might be impacted by changes in your cooling water or flow rates.

Check out "Study of Rum Distillery Waste Treatment and By-product Recovery Technologies" on the EPA website. By far I think the most common large scale commercial approach is anaerobic digestion. There are a ton of journal articles discussing this from across the Caribbean. Some details from another article on the EPA site, "Rum Distillery Slops Treatment by Anaerobic Contact Process": 70-100gm/l COD 75-85gm/l TDS 3-10gm/l TSS From "Investigation of Rum Distillery Slops Treatment by Anaerobic Contact Process" 70-100gm/l COD 20-60gm/l BOD 25-75gm/l TDS 7-10gm/l TSS 1.8-2.5gm/l Nitrogen 80-100gm/l Phosphorus 2-10gm/l Sulfate pH 4.0-4.7

What's your yeast nutrient protocol look like?

1. A stripping run is distillation, plain and simple. 2. There is no standard use of the terminology. Some manufacturers use the number of plates, plates plus pot, theoretical states, or number of times it goes through the process. Arguable that tray count is somewhat irrelevant on it's own, since it's the interplay of stages plus the reflux ratio that governs the output purity (a 3 tray column can output the same abv as a 5 tray column with the only difference being reflux ratio). IMHO, this has transcended into marketing, as evidenced by $300.00 vodkas claiming hundreds of distillations makes a better product. 3. Either.

Not doubting that it can be done very cost effectively, I know many have done it, but there is a difference between going into a venture like this with a realistic budget, and being frugal about how you spend it, versus going in extremely uncapitalized, with no room for buffer. There are plenty of assumptions that are easily blown out of the water after you've started buildout. You may also find your local jurisdiction is not as lax as another. You may find that the neighbor that loved your idea yesterday is now battling for all-out war. You could get stuck behind totally unexpected government delays (remember the shutdown?). For those reading who are thinking about starting, do yourself a favor and take a pessimistic stance on budget, not an optimistic one. I'm sure there are startups blowing up left and right at this point, before ever opening their doors, that we never hear about here.

Both Appleton and Killark publish guides to NEC Articles 500. It's a good guide to understanding the kinds of equipment you would see within classified areas, as well as what the commonly understood boundaries based on typical situations. Sometimes your local electrical contractor supply house will have the printed versions of these books on hand for free. Generally these will give you some good insight into the kinds of things your AHJ are insisting. The intent isn't to make you an expert, but to understand their position. http://www.killark.com/literature/2011NEC.pdf http://www.emersonindustrial.com/en-US/documentcenter/EGSElectricalGroup/brochures_flyers_pdf/nec-code-review-2014-appleton.pdf Also critical is the NFPA 497, you can get free access here. If you haven't yet, take a look at the last 20-30 pages or so, you'll find them very helpful. http://www.nfpa.org/codes-and-standards/document-information-pages?mode=code&code=497 Typically, the crux of the argument is what is considered a classified area, and for what reason, everything else is secondary.