delaware_phoenix

I was able to get loans from local economic development agencies. But I needed a very good business plan.

Also, why plan at all for distribution to the lower 48? Why not scale things to a size that's manageable within the money that you have and for the state you live in?

NY allows farm distillers to do on site sampling. (The farm distiller license is basically the same as NY's usual small distiller license but requires the use of at least 50% NY grown ingredients in your products. You don't have to be located on a farm.)

The French cognac makers all use direct fired stills. Certainly using such methods require more care, but in itself, that's not the problem.

Hot distillate is a problem. Warm distillate is a problem. Enough vapors in the air to cause an explosion is a very serious problem.

If the 40,000 cases hold 9 bottles (I'm assuming 750 ml), that equates to 270,000 liters (71,000 gallons) annually. Also you won't get the purity needed to be called vodka by TTB with a pot still.

hot vapors ignited and the building exploded

There should never be hot vapors exiting the condenser, and there should be no leaks in the distilling equipment that will allow hot vapors to escape the system.

I can only imagine what their insurance costs now.

(almost, DRinc had a fire of some sort at their facility a couple years back, mention was in their SEC filings).

Someone asked me about this, and I couldn't find the information. In fact, I can't find DRinc in the SEC Edgar database at all under any name. There was a fire at MGP Ingredients in Atchison, KS plant in 2002, and they do have SEC filings.

So my sincere apologies to DRinc.

I was reading the history of Scotch and Irish whiskey in the Alcohol Textbook and it mentions that Irish law allows the use of malt enzymes while Scottish regulations do not. Of course, we're here in the US and A and can do otherwise, but each distiller has to decide how closely to tradition (and what tradition) they want to follow.

Someone suggested a thread I think it's a good idea. Personally, I'd make this a sticky.

For whiskey, I always recommend Ian Smiley's Making Pure Corn Whiskey. Not scientific, but basic info.

Google books has some of these available in limited preview. If you go to http://books.google.com/ and search "distilling" you'll find many books on the subject. Some old, some more recent. Some more useful than others.

Fermented Beverage Production

By Andrew Geoffrey Howard Lea, John Raymond Piggott

Published by Springer, 2003

ISBN 0306477068, 9780306477065

423 pages

Brewing: Science and Practice

By Dennis E. Briggs, Chris A. Boulton, Peter A. Brookes, Roger Stevens

Published by CRC Press, 2004

ISBN 0849325471, 9780849325472

881 pages

Handbook of Brewing

By William A. Hardwick

Contributor William A. Hardwick

Published by Marcel Dekker, 1995

ISBN 0824789083, 9780824789084

714 pages

"The book delineates over 900 chemical compounds that have been identified in beers, pinpoints their sources, gives concentration ranges, and examines their influence on beer quality."

Malting and Brewing Science: Malt and Sweet Wort

By Dennis Edward Briggs, James Shanks Hough, Tom W. Young, R. Stevens

Published by Springer, 1982

ISBN 0412165805, 9780412165801

914 pages

The TOC lists a whole chapter on floor malting.

Source Book of Flavors

By Gary Reineccius, Henry B. Heath

Published by Springer, 1999

ISBN 0834213079, 9780834213074

928 pages

I think there's a more recent edition than this one, but I could be wrong.

Aroma of Beer, Wine and Distilled Alcoholic Beverages

By Lalli Nykänen, Heikki Suomalainen

Published by Springer, 1983

ISBN 902771553X, 9789027715531

413 pages

I don't know what your state requirements may be, but alcohol above 22% kills all bacteria. So if you're filling bottles with 50% alcohol, it will sterilize anyway. Bacteria range from 0.2-5 microns in size, so if you filter, you may be removing bacteria was well as any particles.

Welcome!

A glass carboy seems to qualify as

other containers less than 10 gal

c] Tax not to be determined on production gauge. If spirits are drawn from the production system into barrels, drums, or similar portable containers of the same rated capacity and the containers are filled to capacity, and the tax is not to be determined on the basis of the production gauge

and then proceeds to describe the methods allowed. Remember, if your method isn't included in the ones listed, you can always ask for a variance, and clearly demonstrate that you are protecting the revenue.

So even spirits have a Maine redemption value on the bottle? Did I read that right?

According to CFR 19.132

§ 19.132 Continuity of premises.

The continuity of the distilled spirits plant shall be unbroken except for separations by public waterways, thoroughfares, or carrier rights-of-way. However, where there are other separations of the plant premises and all parts of the plant premises are in the same general location, the appropriate TTB officer may approve the registration of the distilled spirits plant if he finds no jeopardy to the revenue.

So you can shouldn't have a problem. The key thing will still be the security of the storage building.

Goggle "how to write a business plan". There's many sources of information for the basics. Much of it written by business people. You'll have to do the legwork to figure your market, as well as the goals for your plan.

One important goal is to give you an idea of how you'll go about accomplishing what you want to do. You need to determine what you need to do, when you need to do it (and in what order), and have a good idea what things will cost. Going through this process will help provide you with a lot of information about how to accomplish what you want to do. Further, you'll have enough information in order to answer questions from bankers, lawyers, insurance people, etc. and also possible suppliers.

At the risk of stating the obvious, TTB must approve your label. So I wouldn't actually print them until I had that in hand.

When making a professional product, you must conform to numerous regulations regarding food as alcoholic beverages fall into that category. I doubt there are any stills being made that use plastic. While plastic is used as a gasket for wine and beer, the low alcohol content is not a problem. But still, the material must meet FDA regulations.

The FDA regulates not only the ingredients of food, but also items that may come into contact with food. You may wish to familiarize yourself with 21 CFR 174 through 21 CFR 178 which discusses indirect food additives. If considering using a plastic tubing, you will want to determine whether this tubing is FDA compliant under 21 CFR 177, and also USP Class VI.

Food grade plastic tubing is available, but you must be certain that it will be suitable for relatively high proof ethyl alcohol. If you don't want to worry too much, then copper and stainless steel are known to be safe. For your product, glass is known to be safe. Though the FDA has allowed some plastic bottles. I personally think they lend a cheap aspect to the product and reflect poorly on the maker.

Anyone know of a tasting/testing service one can submit samples of not-yet-released product to, for critique?

Use your friends. Your real friends. The ones who'll tell you something sucks, or that there's some flavor note they don't like. It's easy to have friends who'll drink your free liquor and say "That's Great" to you, but to themselves say they won't go buy a bottle.

Thanks for the post, it's excellent with a lot of good reminders. I haven't been sitting still. I've been in contact with my legislators from the beginning. This will be their second contact with SLA.

Joined the Farm Bureau.

One of the things the SLA said when I called, was that the legislature had increased the requirements for their (the SLA's) review of applications. I didn't see anything that was obvious to me in that regard in the liquor laws, but it could be somewhere else. Are you familiar with this? Do you have a reference to the NY Code, so I can refer the legislators to that and suggest changes?

I'll go through the Law Revision committee's preliminary report in more detail again. I'd already sent an email with a bunch of comments. There's a lot more I can do. I'll spend some time with that and see what I can do.

What challenges are there from the big liquor lobbyists? I'm sure they're very interested in preserving the status quo.

Well, you'll need a business plan.

Is this business to be just you? That will limit what you can do. This isn't a bad thing at all. If you'll have employees, you'll need to investigate the costs of things like workers comp, disability insurance, etc. for your employees.

Look into the liquor laws in the state in which you plan to operate. Presumably that is where you live now. Make very sure that state allows small distilleries. Investigate the costs of licensing. Are you allowed to self-distribute, or must you find a distributor? Will a distributor in your state be interested your product (eg rum) in the quantity you plan on producing?

If you don't know how rum is made, then I'd suggest learning all about it. Use the internet, books, visit the library.

Make sure the building you will use meets the Federal requirements as well as all state and local requirements. You'll want to become very familiar with the TTB web site. Click on the Distilled Spirits tab. Find the Regulations link which will take you to the regulations you'll have to follow as a professional distiller.

For me, starting a distillery, even as one as small as mine has taken over a year and I'm still not done.

It is the most difficult thing I've ever attempted to do.

Thanks for the info, I'll read through that.

There's also a web site for the Law Revision commission Ralph mentioned, and they've got a preliminary report (dated Sept 2008) on the ABC law. It's interesting reading too. And their twelve goals are to preserve the status quo. Goal number 1 is: preserve the integrity of the three tiered system. But then again, they think it's 1934.

This probably is included, but they need to issue permits on a timely basis. They now require you to have your TTB license before you apply. But that doesn't mean you get your permit any faster. They cashed my check at the beginning of September. Not a word.

The whole idea that Joe's Mini-Mart and Chevron Station needs a special blessing by the full board of the SLA in order to have a cooler with some Bud in it for sale is a joke. There's no sense of helping small businesses in this state.

I have a much greater chance of going bankrupt due to state inaction than any other reason.

And it's not just the SLA, it's other agencies as well. A local business person wanted to sell some Vespa scooters here in the village. They're not readily available anywhere locally. They had to have a "Motor Vehicle Dealership" license. They filed that in May. They got their permit at the end of October. Good thing they had an existing business. Guess they're all set for next year.

I could go on, but right now I'm pretty angry.

I'd say do a prototype run, collecting in fractions. Then decide what goes in.

I don't think anyone here has a problem with people wanting to homebrew. But there are already many active homebrew forums I'm sure, so there seems no reason to start one here.

As to home distilling, it's still illegal in the US. Doesn't mean there aren't people doing that, but I know I don't want to risk my livelihood (or chance at one) as a small distiller by helping them.

I'm in complete agreement. Just emphasize that all producers need to be under a separate licensing procedure than the retail side. Personally, I feel the licensing procedures need to be transparent and open rather than opaque and byzantine. It's a disservice to the honest, small business entrepreneurs who are trying to start businesses and have to invest thousands of dollars before they even start, and then get left hanging in the breeze for 6 months or longer waiting for a permit. Especially now, when the SLA requires new distillery permit applications to already have their Federal license.

Let me know if there's anything I can do to help.

And if the Legislature, etc is serious about promoting this new industry, an interesting idea might be establishing a micro-wholesale license category, or allowing micro-distillers the ability to act as small wholesalers for other small distillers. The big wholesale businesses aren't really interested in us. It wouldn't even make financial sense for them to send a truck to my factory to pick up the miniscule quantity I produce. Just a thought.

What is the difference between the Grain Neutral Spirits and 190 Proof Pure Ethyl Alcohol ??

They are both 190 proof ethyl alcohol. The GNS explicitly comes from grain, which is corn, wheat, etc. There are grape spirits and others as well.

There are some industrial processes that produce alcohol as a byproduct of their operations. I remember seeing one company have a product that was derived from petroleum (or other industrial/chemical) processing.

You have to decide what you want for your business. That will be best for you.

Another problem for people is the high cost of starting a wholesale business. State often charge good money for the annual license for a wholesaler. It's actually a lot more than that for a micro-distiller. It's another way states limit competition and why there's no move towards micro-wholesalers.