delaware_phoenix

And if you haven't already, American Scientific & Surplus currently has some nice muffin fans that will move 240 cfm of air.

The other thing to note is that the formation of copper cyanurate got the copper from someplace. Most likely, your still Scott! Maybe it would be good to buffer the wash a bit bringing the pH up. That will reduce the acidic conditions which lead to the purple color. Not being a chemist I can't recommend one carbonate over another.

You might also want to contact the various barley councils. Apparently in the US all the big distillers use 6-row grown in the Dakotas, Idaho and Montana. Doesn't mean 2-row can't be used, just that there might not be as much efficiency. For further information contact: Idaho Barley Commission 1199 Main Street, Suite G Boise, ID 83702-5630 Tel: 1-208-334-2090 Fax: 1-208-334-2335 Website: www.idahobarley.org Montana Wheat and Barley Comittee P.O. Box 3024 Great Falls, MT 59403-3024 Tel: 1-406-761-7732 Fax: 1-406-761-7851 Website: www.agr.state.mt.us National Barley Growers Association 821 West State Street Boise, ID 83702-5832 Tel: 1-208-334-2090 Fax: 1-208-334-2335 Website: www.nationalbarley.com National Barley Foods Council 905 West Riverside, Suite 501 Spokane, WA 99201 Tel: 1-509-456-4400 Fax: 1-509-456-2807 E-mail: info@barleyfoods.org Website: www.barleyfoods.org North Dakota Barley Council 505 40th St SW, Suite E Fargo, ND 58103 Tel: 1-701-239-7200 Fax: 1-701-239-7280 E-mail: ndbarley@ndbarley.net Website: www.ndbarley.net/ American Malting Barley Association 740 North Plankinton Avenue, Suite 830 Milwaukee, WI 53203 Tel: 1-414-272-4640 Fax: 1-414-272-4631 E-mail: info@ambainc.org Website: www.ambainc.org Washington Barley Commission 905 West Riverside Avenue, Suite 501 Spokane, WA 99201 Tel: 1-509-456-4400 Fax: 1-509-456-2807 Website: www.washingtonbarley.org btw, I found this info over at the US Grains Council (www.grains.org)

In the UK, the Institute of Brewing Barley Committee and the Scottish Agricultural College assess barley varieties (grown in the UK) and issue I think an annual report. You may want to try to see what they report, and whether such varieties are grown here in the US. Some that are grown in the UK are Derkado, Mareso, and Decanter. I'm sure there are many others. One possible issue is the presence of urethane in the barley. It's naturally occurring. It's also a precursor to ethyl carbamate. You may want to contact the state Department of Agriculture and any ag departments at VT colleges. They might be helpful in identifying varieties suitable to your climate.

Thanks for the book reference Todd I'll have to check that one out! I have two batches of grain. Both batches are organic. One batch of grain is "typical" cover crop rye. It's what is often used up here to simply scatter sow in the fall to get a cover crop after the real crop has been harvested. And it'll come back in the spring to give you a cover crop before you're ready to plant the real crop. Not the best pictures about to follow. But there are rootlets. Then there's the phallic banana (the best description). One one seed (not in photo) it's even starting to change color to green from white. Or so it seems to me. I'm pretty sure this isn't torrified rye, as it came from the growers. I don't know of any New York maltsters.

I'm working on a little experiment on malting some rye following the directions in Ian Smiley's book. My impression has always been that the acrospire grows on the inside of the hull based on the descriptions I've seen. But I have what seems to be what seems to be the acrospire and it's outside the rye. I'm under the impression that threshing removes the hull, so maybe that's what I'm seeing? And I understand there are hullless varieties of grains such as barley and oats. So I'm curious. My camera isn't good enough to take a picture of something so small. So if I have a hull less variety of rye (or one that's been processed such that the hull is removed) can that be used for malting? Or am I simply seeing what it should be?

I don't turn people away that show up, but I let them know I can't sell them anything, and I can't do a tasting. Last I heard (and this may have changed) I can't even sell brand merchandise according to the SLA (that's promoting drinking, and they're all about temperance). And they are also told (and can see) that I'm actually working. I'm also about 45 minutes from the nearest major highway. Three hours from NYC. No public transit system comes to this place (they tore up the old railway lines back in the 70's when Penn Central went belly up). In spite of that I've had people show up from as far away as Pennsylvania and Washington DC. For people closer to civilization, I'm sure all these things are really useful, especially when combined with an online shop to let you reach customers from further afield.

The problem with these kinds of analyses is that they don't tell you anything new. Beer and wine are the big sellers. The microbrew industry is still growing. So strongly that there's now Budweiser Amber Ale (or something akin to it). The US spirits industry is $37 Billion annually. 0.0001 of that is a good amount of money. 67% of the adult population drinks. 0.00001 of that is a good number of people. Which spirits sell? Go to 5 liquor stores. Look at the shelf space taken up with the different spirits. They stores aren't filling space for the fun of it. The most space is given over to what sells. You'll learn that Vodka is #1. Whiskey is pretty big, probably #2. Then there's tequila, rum, etc. Then there's shelves with the bottles gathering dust. Odd stuff that the public has forgotten about, that is industrially made with the addition of flavorings from the chemical industry. No wonder they sit on a shelf. Some of those spirits would be really good if handcrafted, made from fine ingredients with skill. But would take some time to build up a following, and might never be a huge seller.

I'm also not open to the public. No tours. No tastings. No direct sales. I like it. I have a local retailer practically right around the corner that stocks my products. They do a very good business.

Thanks Chuck, that gives me enough info to find something that will work. Hadn't thought of using printers ink and a roller. That's easy. Black is usually made from the most stable of pigments, so that fits the bill.

Yeah! Now I'm http://www.facebook.com/DelawarePhoenix

I almost didn't get my Federal license due to bonding. The main insurance company decided that they didn't like what the agent did (even though a standard bond) and begged the TTB to release them from it. TTB obliged. Forcing me to scramble to find another agent and bonding company. Thankfully I did and it ended up being much cheaper! Nearly had a heart attack at one point though. I started with very little assets, but I had a good insurance agent (the second time). Basically had to have a good personal financial statement. One problem with the bonding is that the production capacity is based on 24/7 operation as though it was a continuous still and you were a big company. At least that's what TTB required of me. They certainly want to make sure your bond covers all operations.

I started my distillery with about $50K. But I bought a tiny toy still (30 liters), had dirt cheap rent, and live in a village where much of the main street is boarded up/unused and they didn't care what I did. I also wasn't starting from an 8% mash, and so have to reduce my raw materials by 80%. If you want 150 gallons of fine spirit (let's say whiskey), you're going to need to start with a lot of mash/wash at 8% to get there. Berglund says in a spirit run you'll get about 30% as 120 proof heart and another 20-25% as tails. So just right there you need 450 gallons of low wines. So if you have a 50 gallon still, you could expect 15 gallons heart per run. Thankfully when you bottle you can reduce your 120 proof heart to 80 proof and be just the same as lots of other brands. So you need to only make 110 gallons. So far you need 7 spirit runs a week with a 50 gallon still. And we haven't even begun to distill the mash. You can do it faster if you have a 100 gallon still, but that may well blow the budget cause you also need lots of fermenters and a mash tun and lots of other equipment. Maybe there are folks on the board who can tell us how to produce 150 gallons a week with a small still. I'd like to know how to do that. Maybe my numbers are all wrong.

I'm on FB http://www.facebook.com/pages/Delaware-Phoenix-Distillery-absinthes/94020711224 But have no idea how to get a vanity url.

Certainly computerized records of what you've got in the storage account and everything else is very important, however the CFRs aren't talking about that. Remember, your hard drive could crash and after you recovered everything and put in the backup CD, the message "Cannot read this disk" would be very disconcerting. Here's the link to the distilled spirits CFRs http://www.ttb.gov/spirits/spirits-regs.shtml You want to select 27 CFR Part 19 Distilled Spirits Plants, and then find Subpart R. The important ones are 19.593, 19.596, 19.597 and 19.612. The other elements within the section are important too but weren't as interesting for my purposes. All it says is the marks need to be durable, etc. I'm sure they're stencils, I was just trying to get an idea if there was a particular paint that was more recommended than others. I personally wouldn't choose an oil based paint, and the oil will over time leach into the wood. Probably not enough to even be a problem, but I'm a paranoid head case. Palmetto Coast, barrel aging is listed in the labeling regulations. That's 27 CFR Part 5. Not sure if this is what you were looking for, but the BAM lists the spirits that must be aged in oak and for how long. To be a straight whiskey, it must be aged in charred new oak for at least 2 years.

I've noticed on pictures of aging whiskey barrels that each is identified by distillery, type and class of spirit, rated capacity, lot number, etc. These are required by the CFRs. (And you don't want to rely on you memory that that barrel has bourbon instead of rye ) It looks stenciled. Are there any concerns with the particular kind of paint used? Or will any old black house paint from the hardware store do?

Unless it's been recently changed, only farm distilleries in NY are allowed to have tasting rooms and onsite retail sales. I'm a plain Jane A-1 micro-distillery and that's not allowed afaik. (It wasn't recently.)

Sorry to bump the thread, but with open fermentation is there a concern regarding contamination from bad bugs getting control of the mash? From my reading, that is stated as the concern. Also from my reading, it would be best to have a short lag time by using a well populated yeast starter, acidify the mash to ranges that discourage bad bugs, good sanitation and perhaps some other things I can't remember right now. Are folks really using wooden fermenters? I'd love to do that, making me feel all old school and such. Whether that produces a better product is another matter.

I personally see no reason why they'd want to do that. Unless they feel that they help a small distillery and then buy them out.

Congrats!

I personally am not opposed to paying the appropriate alcohol taxes for whatever state I sell to. As a small distiller, I'm going to have 0.00001% market share. Always. I'm very happy with that amount. I'm much more interested in getting my products to the few people interested in artisanal spirits, and the kinds of spirits I make. The current distribution mechanisms (legally imposed) all disproportionally favor the large producers/distributors. The business model where they place their brands on liquor store shelves leaving no room for small off brands (such as those from micro-distillers). The barriers to entry into the distribution network (as wholesalers) is very high ensuring that there's no competition at that level. In NY, there are two (count 'em, two!) spirits distributors for all of upstate NY. And they have no interest in small craft spirits, you can be certain of that. The illusion that craft distilling will grow like craft beer did, is false. (Sorry Bill.) It's false because the laws that allowed craft brewers to have brewpubs (selling direct to the public), allowed for small distributors due to low licensing fees, low cost of entry for the producer and the like simply do not exist for spirits. Many states still consider spirits "bad". They are "evil" and must be regulated for the public good. Except they'll allow their corporate friends to dominate the market. There's no shortage of booze in NY state, you can be certain of that. I'd be ecstatic with a one page form like F5000.24 (Federal Excise Tax) for the states, especially file once a year. I probably won't ever be big enough to have to file 50 forms (one per state), but that would be better than the current system. Will it change? probably not.

I can't add anything specific to the NY situation (Ralph explained it above), but my non-legal opinion is that the recent Supreme Court decision regarding interstate wine sales may well apply to all other alcohols. The TTB Newsletter dated January 22, 2010 recently mentioned direct sales of spirits and directly mentioned the SC decision. The final sentence seems to be quite the understatement. Personally, I'd be ecstatic if could sell my spirits direct to retailers in nearby states. It's not like I want to put my spirits in every store and have them sit gathering dust. I'd rather get into the few stores where there are customers that appreciate what I'm doing. The small scale distiller simply isn't able to compete with the large scale producer. Unfortunately, the current distribution models favor the large distilleries/blenders/bottlers. jmo.

I've told people that when you plan to start a distillery you have to believe that you cannot fail. I also tell people I think it might be the most difficult businesses to try and start. But not impossible.

Don't know if this would work, but maybe an adsorption chiller. Not sure if there's enough process heat in the system, but maybe. Worth a look at least.

From the original information we can determine that there was 31.66 gallons of pure alcohol. Knowing we overshot the weight by 22.6#, with water weighing 8.33 #/gallon, we know there we added 2.7 gallons. So the final volume was 76.3 gallons. That means (31.66/76.3) * 200 = 82.9 proof. I'm going to assume that I have some of the original 145 proof spirit that was not part of the reduction in proof. Basically you'd want to how much (by weight) of that 145 proof spirit to add to bring it up to the original target of 86 proof. But I haven't completely figured out how to calculate that.