Copperstill

Proper design is the solution. Serpentine condensers are used in the Cognac industry and they seem to have it figured out. I'm not saying they have all the answers but they have been making the stuff since before the USA was a country. For a 660 gallon still, its length is 214 ft with an inlet diameter of 3.5 " and an outlet diameter of 1.5". It is equipped with a breather to reduce pulsing.

Theoretically yes, but with a new still there are a lot of variables in the design you may not have agency over. If you are running a batch column right now I would say most likely yes the product will be different. I suggest you ask the still maker for samples of product made on the still for reference or if there is a distillery currently running their equipment that you can buy in the market. Its not perfect but it should help you better understand what is possible with their equipment. You could also pay to have someone with the still you want to make a batch to your specs. Are you carbon filtering? I always find that redox reactions during carbon filtering shape the final vodka(made from scratch) so much that I focus on that to develop my product profile. PM me if you want me to go into more detail on that. Cheers

I may have someone that would be a good fit for your project. Please email me bw@pb.company. Cheers, B

I like the idea of being able to buy affordable glass that is in 1.5 L size. I've often looked at clear wine bottle shapes(and prices) and wished I could use them.

I've read that there can be an increase in congener production due to the raised osmotic pressure of mixing the cap back into the mash. Is that what you referring to when you write "too stressful"? So just to be clear the difference in your mind between agitation and pump over would be that in agitation you try not to break up the cap while in a pump over you flood the cap until it sinks and integrates back in?

Personally I'm interested in peoples opinions on the how it effects flocculation, attenuation, and osmotic pressure.

I've had talks with several distillers and brewers about this and I'm just curious and decided to take a poll. When fermenting with grain in who is rousing and who is not and why, and under what conditions? cheers, B

I was wondering if anyone has found a commercial pen that doesn't bleed when high proof is spilled on it? I personally use pencil for anything I need around spirit, but would like to switch if I could.

I see that both Johns have already discussed the effects of copper on sulfur compounds so I’ll skip that. To my understanding the physical characteristic of the copper boiler/kettle creates very unique situations during still runs, in conjunction with high heat ,and acidity from the wine/wash. These conditions allows one the discretion of pitching heads back into the pot without a build up of these compounds through multiple still runs because again to my understanding the still is creating new compounds through the coppers catalytic properties, heat , and aromatic precursors that have formed on the surface of the boiler and the inside of the still. High heat also aids in the formations of guaiacols, and 2-phenylethanol which are found in pot-stills, but not significant quantities in column stills. Maillard reactions make furfural and desirable sulphur compounds. This all said I know that some of these reactions happen without the presence of copper, but IMO all copper Alambic stills are the way to go for barrel aged spirits. I said that there are three places that I understand that reactions take place in the still here they are. boiler/kettle surface the transition where the vapor is volatilized out of the liquid mixture (reactions happen anywhere vapor, and copper are in contact really but are highly reactive during the transitional phases) the transition where the vapor goes back to liquid. I’ve read that the concentrations of fatty acids are affected by the output temp of the spirit, and it is my experience that this is true. In my opinion this allows one to shift the final flavor of aged spirit depending on what you what you are looking for.

Give me a call I'd be happy to talk with you about it. My number is in my info. That one thing you are referring to is volatile sulfur compounds?

Just for the record. I can think of 4 places that the copper from a still affects the spirit 3 of which are in the still. Although copper isn't necessary for distillation it has a very positive effect on potable alcohol intended for aging. This includes under specific conditions the boilers(pots) affect on the spirit before it volatilizes hence why a full copper still is favored. I understand trying to be thrifty with money during a start-up but I personally I wouldn't recommend skimping on equipment that all your spirit is going to be made with.

OK food for thought. The commercial distilling industry has been around for at least 400 years, and everyone adds water to alcohol. Do you think in all that time people have never tried it the other way around? Why would the industry continue to make water additions to alcohol if there wasn't a good reason for it if especially if alcohol to water was much more convenient?

Just to clarify your saying that distilling in a copper still doesn't mater if your distilling things other than GNS?

LOL. I agree floor drains and sloped floors prevent huge amounts of time that otherwise is wasted cleaning when you shouldn't have to.

Have wanted to do that for a while. Please let me know how it comes out? As to the sugar addition depending on what type of still you are using you will have more options. For a pot I personally would treat it like wine and get it up to +/- 10% abv. I know this doesn't answer your question directly but hope it helps.

One time I walked into a facility that I used to work at, and the guy on the prior nght shift had forgoten to shut one off. It had been pumping air all night, but when we took it apart there was no sign of damage. The pump didn't care that what it was pumping. Could you imagine what an impeller would look like are running dry overnight? That said don't try and move grape must with them.

Were did you hear this? Doesn't this lead to more aggressive Saponification?

Yamata air pump works perfect. Self primming, runs off of compressed air, and you can run them dry.

I was wondering if everyone would list what it takes for them to make a PG of their new make spirit from scratch, and what it is? I thought it would be usefull for people to be able to get a rough agrigate to know if their are in the ball park whether they are already producing or are building a budget for the future. Thanks, CS

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I was my hope this thread could be a visual reference to others besides my self when they decide to build a hose rack. Please shoot a photo of you drying rack and post it.

I would like to see some pictures of how everyone is storing their hoses in between use. When I worked in the wine industry I saw a bunch of variants on this that allowed the hoses to drain while in the rack. I just don't have the wall space to use that format where I am at right now. I am sure that I can come up with a solution myself, but thought that someone out there might have invented a better mouse trap. This not being an essential proprietary element to production I figured everyone new, and old could benefit from seeing each others take on how to do this. Cheers, CS

Your right Chuck I had my terms mixed up I'll double check my terminology next time before I post.

thanks for the spell check...It you doubt my statement ask Ansley Cole at craft distillers I'm sure he can correct any error.

That's very crafty of Brown-Forman