Hope Springs Distillery

I have been approached by a local business about the possibility of making alcohol flavorings for them to resell to the bakery industry. They are currently buying them from a distillery in a different state, and would like to have a local supplier. I am sure there has to be some specific rules and regulations for this niche -- can anyone steer me in the right direction?

We freeze them dry. Then we pack them into mesh bags and macerate in the still. I don't use my gin basket, I just leave them in the still while I distill.

Sorry for the lack of detail! I have spoken with several other gin makers, and I think I have the answer I need.

I suddenly have a problem with my latest batch of gin lacking flavor after I have measured out a sufficient amount to proof and bottle. I mean this gin tastes like nothing. Do I have to macerate this batch and redistill?

I am looking for some other advice, and found this thread -- so here is some very late to the party advice. DO NOT GRIND. I freeze mine, and I believe it breaks down the interior cell walls. Then macerate for about 48 hours.

Thanks, Foreshot. Question: ETOH at what proof. And did you distill at all? I made my first passes at pretty high proof with a lot of elderflower, thinking I would be watering it down quite a bit to 40 proof, and wanted to maintain the flavor. That seems to have been a serious error in judgment, due to the aforementioned noxious smell.

Has anyone tried making elderflower liqueur with dried flowers? If you have, have you had a problem with the smell of the stuff?

I would be interested in advice on this point, as well.

Is there any guidance on what "adequate size to be easily read" means? Is 24 point type big enough?

Thank you! I read it one time, and then couldn't find it again. Do I need to submit them for approval?

We think we are about to be ready to start distilling -- and we are assembling our packaging suppliers. For boxes, do you recommend printing them or just labels? Our distributor recommended not spending a lot of money on the boxes, at least in the beginning. Second, I cannot seem to find a definitive answer on what the TTB requires on the boxes, and if I need to have them approved. Any guidance?

I am also asking about labels on cases -- our distributor suggested that we just use labels at first, since it's not likely anyone will see the boxes for a while. My question: I cannot seem to find the definitive answer on what does the TTB require on boxes, and do I need to have them approved?

Glad to hear that you had better results than we did. Likely our situation was a bit different. First, we have committed to sourcing everything as close to 100% local as possible. We eventually took all of the paperwork already submitted to BB&T to a small town bank, they came in for a site visit the same day, two days later we were approved (at prime plus 1%) and we were on our way. The local guys were great, but BB&T was just too big for us (we never actually met the Underwriter, we just had a long series of phone conference calls with the same questions being repetitively asked and answered). They also became fixated on our third partner’s hospital business in Texas. Given that our loan was being secured with a personal asset of said third partner, the information insisted upon regarding his hospital partners was deemed unacceptable by all on that end. In any event, the small bank we have chosen is thoroughly invested in our community and is a participant with us more than a mega-bank could ever be. Totally our bad in the delay in knocking on the small local bank's door. Hope y'all have a glorious startup!

We've also been shopping for a distillery tracking software package, and will probably go back to our original business plan concept to create our own system. So far all I've found is expensive cloud based stuff, wherein we do not physically control nor actually possess either the software or our own data. We only have a selection of the two worst ISP's on the planet here, and this adds significantly to the unacceptable quotient on the best of days, not to mention that my wife (another third of our startup) is a recovering attorney and the cloud makes her very nervous and grumpy faced. I'm an antique engineer of three flavors and have never met a computer code that I couldn't tame, but right now Microsoft Access is still my first choice. Simple, user customizable, secure, and user owned and controlled. The cloud will be our BACKUP, not our primary, as it should be, personal and professional responsibility-wise. Consider the "distillery program competition" gauntlet mentioned above thrown. May take a while, but count on it. More than a one-time couple of hundred bucks for a supported (updates and such) package is what should be expected. If anyone else beats me to it, my checkbook is ready. If anyone else is in-process, free consultations upon request.

A pleasant surprise hearing from you, Tory. I'll be slammed tomorrow, but I'll email you what we're looking at importing and see what you can do with it.

Just poking around here to see what I can see. Some great comments - thanks, all. Whew! We have funding secured, a building secured, detailed plans, Contractors lined up, initial fire plan review done, permits in-process, distributor and customers (seriously) in place, ready to pull the trigger (scheduled "go" date was TOMORROW), but then.........our "almost turnkey" (almost everything except for a chiller, demonstrated great quality at excellent prices, good references, etc.) supplier suddenly decided to raise their still pricing by $16,000 - wheeee doggies! They claimed that their still supplier had just implemented a price increase, and at that point I confessed that I had obtained "sanity check" costing from what was very possibly their very own overseas supplier, and they had in fact LOWERED their prices just a little to get me on board. I explained to the original supplier that the markup I saw built into in their original quote was perfectly fine and well earned. They stood their ground, which will probably be a no-go for us. The general "mood" of my contact with them seemed to suddenly change for the worse, maybe from having some business problems or something. Whatever is going on, it sounds pretty bad and smells like spiraling out of control. We have scrambled and contacted a well referred "Importer" as well as a "consolidator" similar to the initial one to do the deed for us if possible. The message here is to constantly double and triple check your vendors, and be prepared for the worst in the blink of an eye. Wow, just wow.

We had visited distilleries all over our state, and observed some unusual trappings only at the newest one - a three section sink for dish washing, a mop sink and a hand washing sink (yes - count 'em FIVE) plus what appeared to be vinyl covered walls for easy "wipe down", all of which were said to be Department of Agriculture requirements. I spent several days calling around the state Agriculture offices and no one seemed to know of any such requirements, which we had been told were categorized under the "Food Preparation" category. I finally found someone that said definitely yes, we need to be inspected and licensed, $500 a year. We're figuring this will all add yet another several thousand bucks that we may not be able to afford and had heard zero about in countless classes and seminars and such.

Wow, just wow. We sent the exact same package (business plan, personal finances of our partners, etc.) to another bank (I'll be happy to mention them when we approach certainty) and TWO - count 'em TWO DAYS thereafter we received a verbal approval. Incredible. This one immediately caught a "Ray Charles could have seen" opportunity to tie the security of the loan to, totally missed by the first useless mega-bank. We are hoping that within the next week or so we'll be on our way.

We have joked about the possibility that he may just have enough loose change in his couch cushions to fund our startup. In any case, he knows the business world and insists that doing this through a bank is the only way to go, and he will serve as the guarantor for our loan. He typically does loans in the tens to hundreds of millions, so it's apparent that he knows what he's doing. If it weren't for guys like that, the rest of us would have no hospitals to go to, so I don't begrudge him any of his well-earned success. Once we get established, one of our primary goals will be to help others along just as he has helped us. Pay it forward!

Boomtown - yes, absolutely, we've looked at SBA from Day One. I neglected to mention that we are intensely fortunate to have as our third partner a guy that has started up six physician owned hospitals in a neighboring state. Needless to say, he pretty much knows business and banks and such inside and out. "We" think the best idea is looking at banks that offer both SBA and their "house flavor" loans - we are still definitely leaning toward SBA, as we start our search anew for a competent lender. Very interesting that since we confessed to BB&T that we are actively looking elsewhere (we have not officially fired them yet, but are looking forward to it) they have improved considerably. Too little too late, but what the heck. Anyway, we screwed up at the outset - SHOP YOUR LOAN to several banks, lean toward smaller non mega-sized ones if possible (they tend to be more local-community minded) and move on to the next one if they skip too many beats. Oh, here's how to spot the first sign of an exceptional bank - they'll ask if you have a facility yet (we do) and if so they will request the initial meeting to be on the premises. WOW!

We just had the world's shortest appointment at Wells Fargo Bank. We gave them a shot after having seen them recommended elsewhere in this forum. The bad news is that they do not make business startup loans, period. Apparently they only make loans when you don't so much need them any more. On to the next one!

Mott - actually, the awful reviews (of BB&T) were only found AFTER we had spun our wheels by following the recommendation of an excellent highly placed elected official that we have known for 20 years. I have made direct contact with some of the BB&T review posters and they have turned out to be thoroughly credible and highly informative with the anonymity removed. Yesterday we spoke with two other banks, including one that has experience with brewery funding. It's way too early to call, but we are heavily leaning toward that one, as they have already clearly demonstrated that they have many clues that none of the others have shown or even seemed interested in having. That one came from a referral via a major "mover and shaker" in our part of Georgia, and the corresponding online reviews closely follow what we have seen from them thus far. Onward!

Thanks, MG and Mott - we have been citizen activist types in our local city and county governments for many years now, and they have been absolutely great in gently competing for the selection of our location. The city we have chosen is now assisting us with the replacement bank selection. I have been in direct contact with the BB&T CEO, and he appears to be completely clueless regarding the abject incompetence that we have observed. I have expressed that this buck stops with him, period. Made me feel better, anyway. I take much of the blame for this mess, as I relied solely upon personal recommendations rather than doing the homework for myself. I have just realized the ultimate idiocy of the last round of questions from BB&T, including what we expected the payback period to be. I'd have thought that to be more of, oh, say maybe a "DAY ONE" question, but what the heck do I know. That was the issue that we responded to with "It's on page 1 of our financial summary" - which we had provided FOUR MONTHS EARLIER. Hopefully attached is one of the most striking of numerous similar reviews of BB&T that I found online ("mybanktracker.com") - eerily similar to our experience. Anyway, I'm posting this in an effort to sternly warn those that follow. BB&T - run away - run far - run fast - never look back!

At this point I cannot suggest a bank to approach for funding a startup, but I can definitely urge that no sane person wanting to start or expand a distillery ever considers using BB&T. On some misguided recommendations we started with them, and four months later here is a synopsis of our results: BB&T - Thanks, that should be all we need. Us - (Later) - Hello? So where do we stand? BB&T - We need some additional information. Us - (actual sample BB&T responses) It's on page 1 of our financial summary. That is on the second page of our business plan, just after the cover page - ya can't miss it. We sent that to you two months ago. Etc. etc. etc. etc. BB&T - Thanks, that should be all we need. Rinse and Repeat. Last week it was stated that we had not proven competence with the process at hand to be successful. I reviewed the summary already provided (imagine that), starting with my 3 engineering degrees, cutting my engineering teeth in oil refinery cracking towers in a process generally known as fractional distillation. I also confessed to having worked closely with a father-in-law moonshiner of renown, only recognizing him as such now by name since his demise. My 40 years of efforts also included 20 of fermenting - beer, wine, and mead, and frolicking at working adult beverage distilleries in four states and three countries, plus ADI hosted training, plus the availability of consultants (included in our financial plan) through our still manufacturer. The phrase "this ain't rocket science" was also used (I am not a rocket scientist, but some of my satellite communications equipment is still orbiting up yonder). BB&T - We need some additional information. Us - Expletives deleted. Shortly we will officially "fire" BB&T. The City that has anxiously awaited our startup also uses BB&T, and they will likely "fire" them as well (they have not been terribly happy with them either, but this debacle precipitated the move). We are fortunate to have my wife's cousin as our third partner. He has established six physician-owned hospitals in Texas, and employs my wife (a recovering attorney) as his lobbyist in our state, to consider opening others here. BB&T had been under consideration for those projects, we made that crystal clear up front, they amazingly showed no interest, and that is now off their table as well. In my long professional career, when I began any new project I made every effort to learn at least the basics of what was expected before forging ahead (DUH). Four months later and BB&T still can barely spell "distillery." Avoid them like the plague. Two days after deciding to dump BB&T and we now have two viable bank clamoring for our business, so we will start anew on Monday.

Whew - thanks all! Just got a massive quote price increase and turnaround time lengthening off the map from one of the "tried and true" biggies, which would have put us under before we started. Desperately insisting upon U.S. made, Red Boot Stills - we'll be talking soon! Again, WOW, just WOW! I had been a bit skeptical of these forums, but I stand (actually, sit) corrected. I've been in contact with a couple of the "up and comer" still manufacturers and will never look back at any of the "bigs." Lightening fast response, incredibly better pricing, quicker turnaround, vastly more support, and basically more solid designs. Full disclosure - I'm speaking as an antique professional engineer here. I'm thinking that the "little guys" get what we startups are all about. Again, thanks all!