Lauter & Wort Question

[Thatch]

57 minutes ago, Mixo said:

Was wondering given malt's sort of delicate flavor. 

We tried to follow Bill Owens book as published by ADI but, like I said, we did not like the taste.  From Bill's book:  "You could also use the “set back” which is the wash that is left in your still after a run".  You might want to give it a try yourself.  We make our own malt and we like the taste best using our "Vienna"  two row.  It has a bit more character than using pale of Pils.

[captnKB]

ill second @Thatch dont use backset for malt whiskey. It will really throw off the delicate flavor of the whiskey

[kleclerc77]

On 3/24/2019 at 8:19 PM, Roger said:

Why bother with the vorlauf ? We've run both ways and see no discernible difference in the end distillate. Vorlauf seems to do nothing but tie up the lauter tun for even more time?

Thoughts? 

That's how I was taught. I've never mashed malt without doing a good, gentle recirc over the top of the bed. I'd only do it for 15-30 minutes. Works remarkably well. You can see the extra fine particles at the top of your puck, especially when you check out the cross sections while shoveling it out 😂100% worth it in my opinion.

[Thatch]

On 3/24/2019 at 8:19 PM, Roger said:

Vorlauf seems to do nothing but tie up the lauter tun for even more time?

Gotta agree with Roger.  We currently Vorlauf but his statement has made me think about what we are doing.  Here's the "official" reason we do it:  

Vorlauf is German for “recirculation.” When a mash is transferred to a lauter tun or when the mash rest has finished in an infusion mash tun, some particles of grain remain in suspension under the vessel's false bottom. ... These particles are therefore sent back into the grain bed so that they never enter the wort stream. 

I'm not sure how much we are keeping from our fermenters, if any, once we're through sparging.

[PeteB]

53 minutes ago, Thatch said:

Gotta agree with Roger.  We currently Vorlauf but his statement has made me think about what we are doing.  Here's the "official" reason we do it:  

Vorlauf is German for “recirculation.” When a mash is transferred to a lauter tun or when the mash rest has finished in an infusion mash tun, some particles of grain remain in suspension under the vessel's false bottom. ... These particles are therefore sent back into the grain bed so that they never enter the wort stream. 

I'm not sure how much we are keeping from our fermenters, if any, once we're through sparging.

Once you get into production you might experiment by not doing Vorlauf, small amount of grain particles and yeast in direct fire can improve complexity of spirit

[kleclerc77]

1 hour ago, Thatch said:

I'm not sure how much we are keeping from our fermenters, if any, once we're through sparging.

That's a good point. However, I always understood it as more of a way to stabilize your grain bed/prevent a stuck mash. There's nothing sadder than seeing a big, beautiful grain bed crack right in half 😭

[tndistilling]

Does anyone "ferment-on-the-grain" when making malt whisky?

 

[Southernhighlander]

4 hours ago, tndistilling said:

Does anyone "ferment-on-the-grain" when making malt whisky?

 

My grandfather used to do it that way without any issues.   He also distilled it on the grain. He had no bitterness in the distillate.  It actually tasted really good.  He also malted all of the Corn for his Bourbon   I talked to a guy a few years ago who said that a couple of the Distilleries in Scotland do it that way, but they are the minority in a major way.  Of course Tennessee Whiskey and Bourbon  have malted barley in their grain bills and it does not import any bitter or negative flavors from on the grain fermentation and distillation.  I have never tried it myself.

[Mixo]

4 hours ago, tndistilling said:

Does anyone "ferment-on-the-grain" when making malt whisky?

 

We considered that but our stills are Cognac stills that are direct fired. Much easier to lauter then ferment, rather than try to separate after ferment. For us anyway. 

[Southernhighlander]

52 minutes ago, Mixo said:

We considered that but our stills are Cognac stills that are direct fired. Much easier to lauter then ferment, rather than try to separate after ferment. For us anyway. 

I agree, in your situation that is true.

[PeteB]

On 3/26/2019 at 10:42 PM, Thatch said:

Gotta agree with Roger.  We currently Vorlauf but his statement has made me think about what we are doing.  Here's the "official" reason we do it:  

Vorlauf is German for “recirculation.” When a mash is transferred to a lauter tun or when the mash rest has finished in an infusion mash tun, some particles of grain remain in suspension under the vessel's false bottom. ... These particles are therefore sent back into the grain bed so that they never enter the wort stream. 

I'm not sure how much we are keeping from our fermenters, if any, once we're through sparging.

I have just returned from visiting all the distilleries on Islay, Scotland. I asked about recirculating at the start (Volauf) and none were doing it which surprised me. They also stir the grain bed between water additions which would let more fines through. I am fairly sure most Australian malt distillers will recirculate to clear up the wort. 

 

[PeteB]

On 3/12/2019 at 12:14 PM, Thatch said:

Lauter grant. When using a pump to move wort from the lauter tun to the kettle, it is easy to pull liquid from the tun faster than the grain bed wants it to flow, compacting the bed and causing a stuck runoff. ... A lauter grant is simply a vessel that collects the wort from the lauter tun.

 

Also found out the Scottish name for a GRANT is an UNDERBACK