Over seas sales

[Paul45]

I get emails asking to sell product to individuals overseas. They will pay in advance by credit card for the product and shipping. The requests are from different sources, but have a similar tone. There is a scam feeling about it. Does anyone have experience with this situation and/or information regarding the legitimacy of these emails.

Paul

[Denver Distiller]

Scam. Ignore it.

[coop]

I get emails asking to sell product to individuals overseas. They will pay in advance by credit card for the product and shipping. The requests are from different sources, but have a similar tone. There is a scam feeling about it. Does anyone have experience with this situation and/or information regarding the legitimacy of these emails.

Paul

Scams, I have been getting these for 3 years. I also get them about purchasing product for overseas. They claim that just send them web site information along with reply DUUUUU. If you found me overseas you already have web information. They are just a nuisance. Delete with out opening. Coop

[Tirador]

These sound like a common scam. Anyone that legitimately wants to buy your products from overseas will likely either offer a Letter of Credit or a PO with payment by wire transfer from their bank.

They will also typically ask for samples (industry standard is usually 2 each 75cl or 70cl bottles, depending upon the country ... ).

Ignore the credit card requests, but if a request for samples, with POs offered, etc. comes up them do the following.

First, research if the company is legit (web-site, banking refrences, etc.). Second, determine if you really have the desire to deal with international transactions, international frieght and banking. These can be complex and difficult if you've never dealt with them before ... and there are risks.

Anyway, good luck. If you do get a real international transaction feel free to ask me questions ... I've literally done more international trade them most international businessmen you'll ever meet (I ran Ford Motor Company's supply chain in Asia ...). I don't mind helping as long as you're serious and respect my time.

Stephen

[R. Berry]

Yea, scams of some type. I get a dozen or so a week in an unrelated industry. Most are obvious in that it's apparent they don't even know "exactly" what our products are. And some are obviously using a template with a fill in the blank type of mass mailing. Have even gotten a few by telephone, which was weird. Some are actually kinda hard to determine the source, and it’s kinda hard to be careful sometimes. Have dealt with overseas shipments, etc., for years, (again, unrelated industry) but if they are real they will be more professional and from a legitimate company, etc., (including all their pertinent information available for you to check them out). But yea, probably scams.

[Absinthe Pete]

I would also like to state the obvious. Most people don't know that Money Orders, Western Union and Cashier's Check can be forged. I don't just mean a fake looking check, but it goes through at your bank. The problem is because it's drawn on a European, usually, bank your bank deposits it into your account you wait a few days and think it's legit. Then 2 months later you bank gets it's bounced back from the European source as fradulant and your money is taken back. So just becareful. A lot of people think a cashier's check is as good as money and once its cashed your good to go, not always the case.

[Paul45]

These sound like a common scam. Anyone that legitimately wants to buy your products from overseas will likely either offer a Letter of Credit or a PO with payment by wire transfer from their bank.

They will also typically ask for samples (industry standard is usually 2 each 75cl or 70cl bottles, depending upon the country ... ).

Ignore the credit card requests, but if a request for samples, with POs offered, etc. comes up them do the following.

First, research if the company is legit (web-site, banking refrences, etc.). Second, determine if you really have the desire to deal with international transactions, international frieght and banking. These can be complex and difficult if you've never dealt with them before ... and there are risks.

Anyway, good luck. If you do get a real international transaction feel free to ask me questions ... I've literally done more international trade them most international businessmen you'll ever meet (I ran Ford Motor Company's supply chain in Asia ...). I don't mind helping as long as you're serious and respect my time.

Stephen

I have ignored and deleted all the request until this one. He gave a CC number, it checked out, moneys deposited into our account, and he is paying retail as an individual. His carrier has yet to pick up the order, but twice he has requested to increase the order (paying in advance). The kicker is he wants us to pay his carrier via Western Union. Money is deposited into our account via CC, then we pay WU to pay the carrier. We get paid, but the WU to the carrier "doesn't smell right".

Paul

[cowdery]

I get these a lot and they are pretty unsophisticated. They don't know my name, they don't know what I sell, etc. Delete. DO NOT reply.

I sell online but I use a service -- CCNow -- for credit card clearance. I've used them for many years and never had a problem. (I'm selling books, DVDs and newsletter subscriptions, not alcohol.) I'm also on Amazon and a major book wholesaler so there is no legitimate reason for anyone to try to do business with me directly.

Some sophisticated cons will actually pay you some money, legitimately, up front to win your confidence and set you up for the big score later on.

If you are selling alcohol by mail where that's illegal it could even be law enforcement setting you up. (Long shot, but possible.)

[Tirador]

I have ignored and deleted all the request until this one. He gave a CC number, it checked out, moneys deposited into our account, and he is paying retail as an individual. His carrier has yet to pick up the order, but twice he has requested to increase the order (paying in advance). The kicker is he wants us to pay his carrier via Western Union. Money is deposited into our account via CC, then we pay WU to pay the carrier. We get paid, but the WU to the carrier "doesn't smell right".

Paul

I'm not sure about that ... but it doesn't smell right to me. His credit card ran? The Western Union to pay a carrier just doesn't sound right. Is this a major carrier?

For an individual you can always specify that they use PayPal, and PayPal will back the transaction ... but they will charge you a fee. I think it's 3.5% if I'm not mistaken (not any more dear then say AmEx).

S.

[Guppy]

I have ignored and deleted all the request until this one. He gave a CC number, it checked out, moneys deposited into our account, and he is paying retail as an individual. His carrier has yet to pick up the order, but twice he has requested to increase the order (paying in advance). The kicker is he wants us to pay his carrier via Western Union. Money is deposited into our account via CC, then we pay WU to pay the carrier. We get paid, but the WU to the carrier "doesn't smell right".

Paul

Paul,

I had an internet business a received a request from a Stephen Nesbit who wanted to purchase toys for a school in Nigeria. The credit card he gave me was from the UK but he told me that he could not use PayPal, since I bit he was persistant and even called me. Except when he did, his Nigerian accent was so thick that I could barely understand what he was saying but he wanted to give me the credit card info on the phone so I could run it manually. When I began to question him he finally started cursing me out and hung up. I did not hear from him again. The credit card is likely stolen, if you want to protect yourself set up a PayPal account so that they assume liability. Easy to do and the fees are very reasonable.

Dave

[Chris Martin]

I have ignored and deleted all the request until this one. He gave a CC number, it checked out, moneys deposited into our account, and he is paying retail as an individual. His carrier has yet to pick up the order, but twice he has requested to increase the order (paying in advance). The kicker is he wants us to pay his carrier via Western Union. Money is deposited into our account via CC, then we pay WU to pay the carrier. We get paid, but the WU to the carrier "doesn't smell right".

Paul

Fortune cookie says: The CC transaction will be disputed by the true card owner and reversed. And who is this "carrier" -- it's probably the scammer himself, or the "organization" he works for. My 2-cents.

[Beauport Bob]

Look at this, 10 now 11 responses so quickly. Firstly, Paul45, congratulations for bringing this to the surface. More information the better for all. Good. Hope to shake your hand someday.

But, no "tippy toeing" here. No apologies. I do not care about anyones feelings on this one! Join this century of what was previously White Collar Crime. Doesn't smell right? Dammit! Dammit! It is Rotten! And you have no protection on the international level. These people are yours and our nations personal economic enemies. And guess where their money gains go! Does anyone have a son or daughter in the service, off shore, in harms way to protect our nation? Wake up! Now....

If you are curious about international transactions, TTB has a division for that. I sat in on their presentations at the last Expo in Cinncinatti. They want to help. Is that correct, Ralph?

Beyond the want of thinking any invoice (sale) is a good sale, all times think of what the maximum benefit and maximum risk to you is when acting on this unrequested sale. There is NO balance. Always ask who, what, where,...you get the rest, before any extraordinary contact.

You have triggered an action, answered their phone so to speak.. You are at risk also now. You may not think so, but defend yourself. These are not amateurs. They may sound it, but you have now moved up their food chain.

1) Call your CC processor alert their fraud unit. Be prepared with all related numbers, dates and facts relating to this transaction..Request a new account.. NOT JUST A NEW NUMBER! Immediately print/get a paper copy of your old account transations to a point in time you feel comfortable with. Ask that you be alerted of ANY unauthorized new post dated or predated transaction to either of those accounts.

2) Call your banks. Again do all the above. And not with a Customer Service Rep or Branch Rep, but with a Fraud or Compliance Officer (I was one once). The process is in place to service this request even in the smallest of banks. Regulators and Insurerers and Homeland Security see to it.

3)Alert anyone you have done EFT's with. Including TTB and FRB if you have done so.

4) However you are connected to your business look to break that bridge. If you are sole prop., partnership, PPC, etc. this can get viral. This is one reason we old fashiondly incorporated.

5) Always, but especially now, we all should look for tiny transactions on all our transaction accounts. $.12's or $.25's any number that you cannot account for. They often may be listed as "Telephone Credits" "Service Credits" or any other casual posting ID's. Do not think it is trivial or a waste of time. These are "Bad Guys" probing transactions to see if you are reconciling your accounts.

6)Int'l Cash checks, Money Orders, W.U. ..Listen, you should know your banks policy. Besides, coast to coast USA, most transactions are instant now. "Float" is part of the past. And do not take "We are not one of those big city banks y'know" excuses. International, your bank should not credit your account immediately. They should collect than credit post your account, even from our good friends to the North, a Canadian transaction. But it should not take much time to do so. 2 months was mentioned(A.Pete). Take a walk on that institution now if that is so. Besides, why take that payment and the risk anyway.

I'm glad I had an experience at 10 years old that cost me $3.50 at a carnival midway with one of those "swing the ball on a string to knock the pin down" games. Lesson learned.

I've seen the results of people not paying attention. Whole families, several families, assets evaporate with no recourse. Lives ruined. Banks ran for cover. CC clearing houses ran for cover. And do not depend on Credit Reporting agency or Credit insurance services, you know those $.5% of balance monthly fees to either be correct or protect. They are your friends until the "Small Print" kicks in.

If you have read this to this point, and unless you want to be on 20/20 or any other TV newsmag, do not limit yourself to what I say to protect yourself. Do more if you can think of how. You all have worked very hard for your dough. Please protect it.

Good luck.

Bob

[Beauport Bob]

Chris, Odd you should mention that fortune cookie prediction.

One local (to my area)example held that a family got their teen a low limit card for college. The Bad Guys, on shore this time, got hold of the number. On campus, without the University's approval, Bad Guys were offering to exchange new students hometown card for a card with easier payment, bigger limit and lower rate. "Sign here, sign here, Soc. Sec. # there, address, and here is you free Sweatshirt". She was supposed to be an adult and take care of things according to the parents. They did not moniter her account. Information had been easily obtained. She was in denile when seeing unendorsed charges to her card. The charges went undisputed until after the bigger damage was done. They were using her card to initiate a scam the parents. As Crosby, Stills, Nash and, (I think) Young stated: "Teach Your Children Well..." Be proactive.

OK, off the soapbox and now back to distilling.

Bob

[Absinthe Pete]

Now I know it's a scam. A LOT OF SCAMS INVOLVE paying you some money then having you pay for somthing else... THIS is totally a scam.

The simplest is this scenario.

A gentlemen wants to buy a Motorcylce and all he has is a cashiers check for $28,000, he says it's from a settlement of some kind, but the Motorcycle is only $15,000. So he wants you to pay him $18,000 back and get the motorcyle. What happens is the fund fall through some how a month later when your bank finds out. He doesn't care about the item but the money you pay him back.

[grehorst]

I've been getting these requests weekly for the last couple of years. Great stories too- "I'm an American expat living in the Philippines, Someone gave me your wines as a gift. I want to buy more- please give me your website and tell me what you sell. I will pay by credit card".

Red flags-

1. These people do not live on our continent.

2. They said they have had our wine, we don't make wine.

3. Somehow they have my email but they don't know my website.

4. They said they have had my wine in the previous sentence but now they suddenly don't know what I sell and want me to tell them.

Any one of these should be cause for concern, but when combined they are almost comical. Mark them as spam and forget about them.

[delaware_phoenix]

Now that everyone knows these are scams, does anyone have experience with exporting to Canada as well as the export paperwork for TTB? I looked a bit at the TTB website and it seemed that there was a bit of paperwork involved. I wonder also about approved bottle sizes and any labeling issues. Links to Canadian sizes with the info welcome.

Are there any particular cautions to be aware of when exporting in general, as well as exporting to Canada.

I ask because I've received a request from a Canadian liquor store in a province where the gov't purchases the alcohol, and the stores purchase from the gov't. It seems quite legitimate as I'm to ship to the gov't receiving warehouse.

[Guest Bonanza]

Funny to read this topic.

We run a hotel beside of the distillery and get a lot of this scam emails, just today arrived this one:

"The extra service is that you send the sum $3600 to my ticketing

company through western union money transfer, i will have prefer them

to do it directly but, they do not have the facility to charge credit

cards.The $3600 will be charge on my credit card.

I want to get back to me with the total full cost including my ticketing fees.

Am also ready to offer you commision of $400 on this

transaction.

I will forward my credit card to you to make the full charges on it.

Attached is a copy of my Passport and Drivers License for identification"

[kkbodine]

This is a very common scam. The credit card numbers are stolen and will eventually be disputed by the owner and the charges reversed to you. Meanwhile you will be out the money sent to the "shipping company" via Western Union or whatever service (the scammer can pickup the money at any WU office in any country).

See http://forum.419eater.com/forum/index.php

You can report the numbers via the above mentioned forum and they will get shut down. My credit card processor did not care about the stolen numbers when I reported to them.

Cheers,

Keith

[Guest Liberty Bar - Seattle]

Interestingly, I just heard of a "scam", where companies like this hire someone to simply re-ship items for them. They pay - but the scam is that what the people re-ship is weapons or otherwise illegal things that are send to them. So, when these shipments of illegal items are caught, the shipper is on the hook. Usually, the sender does not get in trouble simply because they were unwittingly paid to do what they thought was a legal, but they would have to pay an attorney to make sure that they are let off the hook.

[Ralph at Tuthilltown]

Remember rule number 1 of the "Confidence Man": The goal is not to gain YOUR confidence; the goal is to get you to feel like THEY trust you.

We too get these requests. They are obvious scams. We do a fair amount of export to the EU and Australia. Never in all our dealings has a legitimate distributor approached us in a manner such as the scammers use. Every legitimate inquiry is either by phone or email and the potential client has a website, can be verified and knows the proper method for export. The facts that all the inquiries are essentially the same, same type of approach, in some cases the same copy should tip you off. Beware.

The best suggestion, aside from "know your client", if you do respond to a request, is to require a standard bank letter of credit before you ship anything more than a sample.. We require 50% payment WITH THE ORDER, and the balance covered by a LOC and due 30 - 60 days from the day the goods ship from our dock. We have had no real problems following this method.

R

[caver95]

I come from the scuba diving industry and I would get emails like this, it is a scam! I like the ones that are My sons is traveling from the UK and I do not trust him to keep a handle on all the money, so I will pay you via CC and he needs some travel money to get from NYC to you I will send you extra if you promise to send it to him via Western Union. I have had other friends mailed large orders after being paid via CC and then a month later their account was charged back and the lost product as well. Paypal, in my opinion, is not much better at protecting you. My brother-in-law's Dad was taken for 5k on a craigslist scam, if it's too good to be true. As a side note I am in Eastern Europe, and I have a very luritive vencher that well greatly benafit the both of us well my dearist, i uhwait your response :-)

[Ralph at Tuthilltown]

Now that everyone knows these are scams, does anyone have experience with exporting to Canada as well as the export paperwork for TTB? I looked a bit at the TTB website and it seemed that there was a bit of paperwork involved. I wonder also about approved bottle sizes and any labeling issues. Links to Canadian sizes with the info welcome.

Are there any particular cautions to be aware of when exporting in general, as well as exporting to Canada.

I ask because I've received a request from a Canadian liquor store in a province where the gov't purchases the alcohol, and the stores purchase from the gov't. It seems quite legitimate as I'm to ship to the gov't receiving warehouse.

The various Provinces have their own rules, as do our States. I believe Alberta is the only "open" Province; all others buy as a response to a "tender offer" put out by the Province. Your best bet is to enlist the aid of a wholesaler already operating in the major markets you are looking to crack and have them approach the Provincial LCBO. It is possible to do it yourself, but it is difficult, international, time consuming and no guarantee you'll get in. The important thing to remember, as with our own "control states" is that there needs be created "pull" from the market before the Provincial agency will take it on. You may also have "buy back" clause wherein if they do not move the product within a certain amount of time you must buy it back, and pay for all the shipping and customs.

Find a reputable distributor in Toronto or Quebec and start making inquiries through that distributor, establish a relationship and see where it takes you.

R