Sarafina Cartelli Posted November 24, 2020 Share Posted November 24, 2020 Hello everyone We're having slight problems over here with a new project.... How the hell do you figure out the proof of naturally infused spirits? The pineapples have a ton of sugar and water in them, the sugar making the liquid denser therefore the hydrometer is completely inaccurate. Our antonpaar is also out of the question because of the damage the sugar would do to the equipment. We're at a loss over here and can't find anyone who has seemed to have similar problems. Please help, thank you!!! -SC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meerkat Posted November 24, 2020 Share Posted November 24, 2020 See parts 3 and 4 of the TTB Proofing Tutorial Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffw Posted November 24, 2020 Share Posted November 24, 2020 TTB has some lab distillation proofing procedure videos...https://www.ttb.gov/distilled-spirits/proofing-tutorial Pretty straight forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JNorris Posted November 24, 2020 Share Posted November 24, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarafina Cartelli Posted November 24, 2020 Author Share Posted November 24, 2020 Are there any methods that don't require a lab setup? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffw Posted November 24, 2020 Share Posted November 24, 2020 Sure, send it to a lab and let them do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteB Posted November 24, 2020 Share Posted November 24, 2020 There is apparently a method that combines refractive index with density that can directly measure ABV containing sugars (obscuration) As most would know the density increases with addition of sugar but decreases with addition of alcohol making hydrometers useless. But refractive index increases with the addition of both sugar and alcohol. Using both measurements and smart math the ABV can be calculated. BUT as far as I am aware the method is not government approved. The link below is for a device that apparently does the job. Looks expensive unless you are doing thousands of samples. http://scisol.com.au/product/alcotest/?fbclid=IwAR3MHrF2p0nMHVwilPnbQW10wgv-SGZZdP7sTWEQ3o_igLBqE6BGOAphZmk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meerkat Posted November 24, 2020 Share Posted November 24, 2020 In the US the TTB distillation method is the only officially acceptable method of proofing. But as PeteB has pointed out, if you have two separate measurements of two independent properties (i.e. density and RI in the case of the Rudolph machine) you can combine them with the applicable math and get to an accurate, but unofficial result. You can do a similar procedure using much cheaper, but also much slower, equipment than the Rudolph AlcoTest. With a simple drying oven and an accurate weighing scale you can measure the solids content after the infusion. Once the sugar content is known it can be combined with the SG of the spirit to calculate the proof. Here is an example done in AlcoDens LQ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thatch Posted November 24, 2020 Share Posted November 24, 2020 We do our own proofing but if you're in a hurry and don't want to watch the TTB video and buy the lab still. These people are who you want to talk to. Lauren Sandell Lab Manager TTB Certified Beer Chemist Kombucha Queen https://kathinkalabs.com/ Cell: (970) 889-0208 Kathinka Labs 1402 Laporte Ave. Fort Collins, CO 80521 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JNorris Posted November 25, 2020 Share Posted November 25, 2020 For anyone who wants to learn how to proof your own spirits using a lab still IM me, and I can teach you. You can spend $250- $500 on a lab still and learn how to do it yourself or pay a lab to do it for you every time. Labs are charging....$90-$120 for a proofing test, ONE proofing test. (Dang, I remember when this was $30!!! ...it looks like I am in the wrong business, maybe I should start a lab for testing/proofing spirits.) Oh and you have to pay shipping. AND you have to proof your spirits before you bottle, so a sample from every batch would need to be sent to a lab for proof testing before you could bottle. You can see how the costs will add up quickly. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sorghumrunner Posted April 26, 2022 Share Posted April 26, 2022 On 11/25/2020 at 4:07 PM, JNorris said: For anyone who wants to learn how to proof your own spirits using a lab still IM me, and I can teach you. You can spend $250- $500 on a lab still and learn how to do it yourself or pay a lab to do it for you every time. Labs are charging....$90-$120 for a proofing test, ONE proofing test. (Dang, I remember when this was $30!!! ...it looks like I am in the wrong business, maybe I should start a lab for testing/proofing spirits.) Oh and you have to pay shipping. AND you have to proof your spirits before you bottle, so a sample from every batch would need to be sent to a lab for proof testing before you could bottle. You can see how the costs will add up quickly. @JNorris With the distillation method for obscuration, is a water bath chiller a required piece of equipment to be able to measure volume 'the distillate is adjusted to the original temperature' and restored to the original volume by addition of distilled water. We are pretty much always above 60F at our distillery, and of course, never precisely at 60F. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCLabGuy Posted July 8, 2022 Share Posted July 8, 2022 Yes, you need a water bath to get your sample to a target temp before & after distillation. I tried using a cheap heat-only bath, set for a couple degrees above ambient. I had measurable ethanol losses due to evaporation. I replaced the bath with a more expensive lab bath w/ recirculation & heating+cooling. It's set to 60F which also aids in hydrometer proofing. No more evap losses. YMMV. While the beginning and ending temperatures are not regulated, they do need to be the same before and after, which means you need an accurate thermometer to check your bath. My advice, don't skimp on your gauging tools too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedd Haas Posted July 10, 2022 Share Posted July 10, 2022 What brand and model of lab bath with chilling did you purchase? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCLabGuy Posted July 14, 2022 Share Posted July 14, 2022 Whatever I could scrounge up on Craigslist. I have a Beckman unit I like but quite a few brands make serviceable units. Thermo maybe? I look for a 5A+ compressor on the cooling side. I've also cobbled together something workable using a simple compressor-type chiller, pump & sous vide circulator wand in a plastic storage bin. You're heating and cooling and circulating all at once, which works surprisingly well, but isn't particularly energy efficient. Note that lab chillers will also heat and cool simultaneously to maintain temp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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