Looking for boiler input - Rite vs Parker vs Hurst vs ?

[sandytoes]

We are in the process of building an new facility and eager to upgrade from all electric (direct fire, bain marie and steam generator) to a 15-20hp boiler. I am currently looking at tube boilers from Rite, Hurst and Parker. I would appreciate any insight that could be offer concerning these or other boilers. We currently have a 211 gallon pot, continuous still and a 211 gallon mash cooker (upgrading to 600 gallon).

Tom

[Silk City Distillers]

You may find there are regional preferences in boiler brands based on proximity (for freight reasons) and/or distributor preferences.  Suspect your plumber/steam fitter might have a preference too.

15-20hp seems a bit small in supporting the expansion.

[sandytoes]

1 hour ago, Silk City Distillers said:

You may find there are regional preferences in boiler brands based on proximity (for freight reasons) and/or distributor preferences.  Suspect your plumber/steam fitter might have a preference too.

15-20hp seems a bit small in supporting the expansion.

Silk -

What does your gut say concerning size? 600 gal cooker, 200 gal pot, 8" continuous 2 gal beer per minute.

Tom

[Silk City Distillers]

25-30hp for simultaneous heat up.

We run a 530g (2000l) cooker and a 265g (1000l) still - but we can't run them at the same time on 15hp.

Sure, we can play around with staggering starts, but operationally it's a headache, especially since the cooker can consume every pound of steam the boiler can put out, meaning the steam header pressure will drop to nearly zero.  Running two devices means trying to balance across two steam valves, where adjustment in one, impacts the other.  We recently added a huge hot liquor tank to try to cut our mash heat up times.  Preheating the water gives us a little bit of leeway - mainly because we're shifting the bulk of the heating to the night before.

[sandytoes]

5 hours ago, Silk City Distillers said:

25-30hp for simultaneous heat up.

We run a 530g (2000l) cooker and a 265g (1000l) still - but we can't run them at the same time on 15hp.

Sure, we can play around with staggering starts, but operationally it's a headache, especially since the cooker can consume every pound of steam the boiler can put out, meaning the steam header pressure will drop to nearly zero.  Running two devices means trying to balance across two steam valves, where adjustment in one, impacts the other.  We recently added a huge hot liquor tank to try to cut our mash heat up times.  Preheating the water gives us a little bit of leeway - mainly because we're shifting the bulk of the heating to the night before.

Thanks for the insight! I do appreciate it.

[SlickFloss]

I very rarely disagree with silk and I am not in this instance per se that would run it, but I would maybe even bump that up to a 50. To run all that, plus maintain constant header pressure, plus a little extra to put in a strahman hose and a steam wand (you can thank me later you got my number :) )

 

Edit: Forgot your original question, we run Miuras. We love them. Low Noxx lifeeeeeeeeee

Edited September 15, 2021 by SlickFloss
Addition of brand rec

[Silk City Distillers]

Undersizing is the bigger mistake at installation time.

[SlickFloss]

2 hours ago, Silk City Distillers said:

Undersizing is the bigger mistake at installation time.

This is the answer. If you think you want any more expansions or just increased steam load in the future this is a place to save some time and money!

[B-rad]

I am surprised how big you guys say the boiler would need to be.  I have a 9hp boiler and it handles my 500Gal cooker just fine.  My still is only 150 Gal.  I am actually planning a similar expansion up to a 500 Gal still and was just planning on a boiler double the size.  I guess I need to rethink this. 

[Southernhighlander]

On 9/13/2021 at 12:26 PM, sandytoes said:

We are in the process of building an new facility and eager to upgrade from all electric (direct fire, bain marie and steam generator) to a 15-20hp boiler. I am currently looking at tube boilers from Rite, Hurst and Parker. I would appreciate any insight that could be offer concerning these or other boilers. We currently have a 211 gallon pot, continuous still and a 211 gallon mash cooker (upgrading to 600 gallon).

Tom

Tom

Here is the rule of thumb that I use when sizing boilers for my customers and it has worked great for the over 100 customers that we have sold boilers to.  1,000 BTUs of steam boiler output per gallon of mash in the pot for a one hour heat up to operating temp time.  500 BTUs per hour for a 2 hr heat up time.  So if you have 1,200 gallon in  mash tuns and stills that you are going to start at the same time, you would need 1,200,000 BTUs of boiler output (1 hour heat up time) which is around a 35hp boiler.  For a 2 hr heat up time you will only need an 18 hp boiler. 

Except for fast stripping runs, your run time after operating temp is reached is about the same using both 500 BTUs per hour per gallon or 1,000 btus per gallon  scenarios, unless you are doing really fast whiskey spirit runs.  If you plan on expanding again later you can go with up to 1,500 BTUs per gallon of mash without much efficiency loss however you will have some efficiency loss once you back of the steam after operating temp is reached, especially if doing long Vodka runs.  Anyway the right answer, as far as boiler sizeing, depends on how much time you want the heat up to be.

  In the 1200 gallon scenario a 17 hp, 35 hp and 50 hp can all be right answers depending on the heat up time you want.  My opinion is, unless you want to expand in the future, Silk's recommendation for a 30hp boiler is best because that should give you a heat up time of around 1 hr, when all heated vessels are started at the same time, which is what most people who order from me want. 

Personally I like Rite boilers best which is why I'm a Rite distributer, however all of the boilers you named are good boilers.

 

[Galapadoc]

On 11/10/2021 at 11:33 AM, Southernhighlander said:

Personally I like Rite boilers best which is why I'm a Rite distributer, however all of the boilers you named are good boilers.

 

So would a 5 HP boiler be plenty to run your 100 gallon Pro Vodka Still and a cooker at the same time?

[Southernhighlander]

19 hours ago, Galapadoc said:

So would a 5 HP boiler be plenty to run your 100 gallon Pro Vodka Still and a cooker at the same time?

The 5 hp has a 200,000 BTU input and around 160 BTU output.  You need 200,000 BTUs of low pressure steam boiler output for around a 1 hr heat up time, for my 100 gallon still and 100 gallon mash tun when they are started at the same time.  However, if you think you might add more equipment later, you could go with up to a 9hp boiler.

[captnKB]

Rite boilers are fantastic. ive run a bunch of them and they have all been great

 

[Handlebend]

On 11/10/2021 at 11:33 AM, Southernhighlander said:

Tom

Here is the rule of thumb that I use when sizing boilers for my customers and it has worked great for the over 100 customers that we have sold boilers to.  1,000 BTUs of steam boiler output per gallon of mash in the pot for a one hour heat up to operating temp time.  500 BTUs per hour for a 2 hr heat up time.  So if you have 1,200 gallon in  mash tuns and stills that you are going to start at the same time, you would need 1,200,000 BTUs of boiler output (1 hour heat up time) which is around a 35hp boiler.  For a 2 hr heat up time you will only need an 18 hp boiler. 

Except for fast stripping runs, your run time after operating temp is reached is about the same using both 500 BTUs per hour per gallon or 1,000 btus per gallon  scenarios, unless you are doing really fast whiskey spirit runs.  If you plan on expanding again later you can go with up to 1,500 BTUs per gallon of mash without much efficiency loss however you will have some efficiency loss once you back of the steam after operating temp is reached, especially if doing long Vodka runs.  Anyway the right answer, as far as boiler sizeing, depends on how much time you want the heat up to be.

  In the 1200 gallon scenario a 17 hp, 35 hp and 50 hp can all be right answers depending on the heat up time you want.  My opinion is, unless you want to expand in the future, Silk's recommendation for a 30hp boiler is best because that should give you a heat up time of around 1 hr, when all heated vessels are started at the same time, which is what most people who order from me want. 

Personally I like Rite boilers best which is why I'm a Rite distributer, however all of the boilers you named are good boilers.

 

Hey Paul, 

We are in the works of getting our 250 gal. still and are in the market for a boiler. What would the best way be to get a quote from you on a few different sized Rite boilers? 

Thanks!

[Southernhighlander]

Handlebend,  Go ahead and email me paul@distillery-equipment.com and let me know what sizes that you want quoted and we will quote them for you.

 

Thanks.