Diageo goes "Artisanal" with Moon Mountain Vodka

[cowdery]

Trying to get "craft" defined n the SOI is folly.

But seeking redress within DISCUS is not.

While a trade association may not interfere with competition among its members, it should be able to resolve a dispute in which a DISCUS member appears to be using terminology that is contrary to the association's definitions. Diageo cares about DISCUS because it needs the collective lobbying muscle on taxes and other industry issues, especially as a non-U.S. company.

I also would not automatically assume that Diageo cannot support its claims. Although the picture of malt whisky stills appears to be a misrepresentation, you cannot automatically assume this is standard mass-produced vodka dressed up with a lot of empty claims. I suspect it is but I don't know it is.

As many of you know, I have objected to all claims of "pot distilled vodka" because vodka cannot, as a practical matter, be made from scratch in alembics, which is what "pot still" means to the general public. The use of a hybrid still with rectification plates, in my lexicon at least, is not "pot distilled." But I have learned a lot since I have been participating here and am willing to accept that any charge still, regardless of its top end, is a "pot still" in the most generous interpretation of the term.

In other words, "people who live in glass houses." There are plenty of ADI members selling "craft vodka" who would not be able to bear the scrutiny we want to give big bad Diageo.

Also, WRT the label's identification of where produced:

5.36 (a)(6) The label may state the address of the proprietor's principal place of business in lieu of the place where the bottling, distilling or rectification operation occurred, if the address where the operation occurred is indicated by printing, coding, or other markings, on the label or on the bottle.

[Ralph at Tuthilltown]

I wouldn't go so far as to say that trying to get changes in the SOI is "folly". But I do believe the fastest way home is to get the term defined within the context of the Tax code as we attempt to get a reduced FET for "craft" distillers.

[cowdery]

The fact that you felt compelled to put "craft" in quotes illustrates the problem. "Micro Spirits Producer," which is I believe the terminology being used in the tax context, is another matter. That you can define. Unless you intend to define "craft" as meaning "small" and nothing else, "craft" is too nebulous as to its meaning to be useful in a body of rules, especially as to a definition that would exclude large producers.

[Joe Pawelski]

I think Cheryl might be on to something regarding a requirement to include the name of the company that earns profits from the spirit being produced. There are complications of course, but, in the end it seems like the company that owns the brand should be listed on the label. I am not 100% on this but is seems to me Coke products like Vitamin water and minute maid all say coke somewhere albeit not always in the most obvious font.

Regarding the comment about "us versus them", on certain issues- it is us versus them. Take Bacardi versus Diageo - especially in this PR rum situation - are they not against each other? Now that's not to say we shouldn't always try to handle things amicably and we certainly don't want to be making enemies, but it would be ignorant to assume Diageo is making this craft moonshine brand because they like us. The similarities between 99% of ADI members and Diageo, or Bacardi are isolated the separation of mixtures by distillation. (Read about them on Wiki)

I'd also like to add that if the goal is to brand "craft/artisan spirits" based on favored taste over the mainstream spirits (as so many have pointed out in this discussion)it behooves us not to make sure all of us actually are producing excellent sprits. Yes, some of us will have to scramble to meet some of the guidelines that may come out of this, but hopefully none of you started a business without provisions for change!

[Ralph at Tuthilltown]

I actually shared Chuck's opinion on the terminology for the definition. Anyone who followed the thread for over a year as we attempted to refine the definition read the various discussions on the ambiguity and vagueness of the term "craft" or "artisan". The choice of "micro spirits producer" was meant to be inclusive, rather than exclusive. But the events of the recent past, with folks like DIAGEO capitalizing on the phrase "craft distilled" and therefore, as has been expressed here, misrepresenting their product to the consumer, there may be some need to find a way to include the term "craft" in the definition. "Craft" is a term of art, well defined and implies direct contact with the product throughout the process by a skilled artisan. "Artisan" on the other hand does not imply a style of production, but rather refers to the individual who is a qualified maker of goods, in a factory or a small craft distillery, no distinction is made that I can find between an "artisan distiller" working in a huge industrial plant, or one working at Tuthilltown Spirits for instance.

But the point is well taken and perhaps there are some suggestions how to work "craft" into the definition. Many State's have used that term in their small distillery license laws.

R