Gin, Gin tasting and feedback

[jocko]

I have been working for some time on perfecting gin recipes.  In an effort to not fall in love with my own products and be objective, I have been doing a lot of gin tastings with people that are really into gin. I am struggling with getting quality, useful feeedback.  

Three people are lifelong gin fanatics.  They love gin.  Others have wonderful pallets and can fully express what they are tasting... but are not longtime gin drinkers and don't hhave depth of understanding of the style.  I'm in the middle. 

But, the problem seems to be that nobody drinks gin straight. It's always in a cocktail.  G&T the usual, but it's always adulterated and the tonic can make a massive difference, as well as how the lime is presented.  One of my tasters insists on sugar-free tonic.  Which is terrible, as I think it really skews the experience. 

Curious what people do to get solid feedback.  I have some gins that I think are unbalanced.  But, put it in a G&T and wow.  It explodes. Drink it straight and it's not.that.good. as a standalone product. 

Thoughts?

[Kindred Spirits]

Sometimes its worth it to have a professional do an assessment.  One service we offer is product evaluations. Often times our clients find themselves in the exact same position you find yourself in, so we take the time to test the product and report any potential off putting characteristics that most consumers look for.

We also can conduct a blind tasting with your spirit compared to others well known within the category, this allows for better transparency on developing recipes and reduces some of the factors that can effect the outcome of a tasting.

[Foreshot]

TL;DR version: There's no easy way, you need to build up a "feeling" about it. A big marketing budget helps. 

Yeah, welcome to wonderful world of distilled spirits where nothing is easy. There's a lot of spirits in our world that are meant to be unbalanced. We produce one that is bitter/astringent on purpose. It's meant to give the bartender a way of balancing out a sweet cocktail and add complexity. Straight up it's not great. One of my favorite local products is undrinkable neat. Throw it in a cocktail and like you said, wow. It's just part of the industry when you veer off of base spirits. 

We break products down into retail & wholesale. Retail products are for our tasting room and direct sales events. They must be balanced enough that consumers of all kinds can like the flavor. Wholesale products are directed more at bars and external retail. Those products are more for a specific purpose - mixers mostly. They are designed normally to have as little sweetness as possible. Bartenders can add simple but not take it away. That by itself make is so that home consumers won't be likely purchasers. 

We have a group of bartenders/beverage managers we trust to give us feedback for products like that. Sometimes though they like a product because it's odd, and not in a good way. Not great feedback but it happens. We generally look at what they think is a good plan of use - what cocktails they think it work in or if they can create some for the spirit. The wider variety of uses the more likely it's going to be a good seller. 

We're so small that we don't have a budget for external tasting. If we did we would. So far we're relied on competitions to give us feedback. It's not a great move but it's what we can do. 

 

[Cosmic.Distiller]

I do this *a lot* with a variety of people (both gin people and self professed gin haters, as well as your folks in between who just want a tasty g&t). My best advice for you is to have a set of questions ready for them to answer, or type up a sheet for them to fill out, that outline the basics of a good gin (does it taste harsh, hot, smooth or flat? What are the main flavors you get? Is it bitter, piney, sweet, funky or etc etc), ask them what they thought of it overall after they fill out those questions, then make them a good basic g&t the way you developed it to be served. I can't tell you how many people warn me before a tasting that 1. they hate gin, and 2. they hate tonic, only to be completely converted because it was done well. 

It can get frustrating, but at least if they fill out that sheet you'll get more out of it than your typical feedback of "it's strong".  

[Silk City Distillers]

Gin's just a brutally complicated category.  Not because it's hard to make gin, but because there is such an enormous variety of flavor profiles, and such an incredible amount of preference.  You also have to straddle the challenge of either being broadly appealing or being creative/unique enough to appeal to gin drinkers.  Y'all know it, just distillasplaining.  Anecdotal tasting feedback is interesting, but is going to be all over the map, and to get reliable results would probably require some large sample sizes and more rigorous sampling methodologies, etc.  Even when you get that all correct, how the hell do you communicate all of that in your marketing message?

Like @Foreshot said, you really need to start with the broader product strategy, are you attempting to be broadly appealing or are you trying to own a niche sub-category, flavor profile, or market segment.  In those scenarios, the target customer personas can be very different.  Feedback, even anecdotal, should be aligned to those.

On the G&T front - yeah that's a tough one.  In the tasting room, we carry only one tonic, and it's the one that showcases the product the best (we think), even if it's not the patron's preference.

We joke and say we make gin for people who hate gin, but that was exactly our point.  When a gin enthusiast tries it, the usual feedback we get is something along the lines of "eh, it's ok", which is totally fine.  But when someone who isn't a gin drinker comes in and tries it, gets curious, loves a gin cocktail we make, and says something like "oh my god, I didn't even know I liked gin" - for us, that's our home run.

Find your angle, run with it.

[NEWTOTHIS]

On 10/13/2022 at 5:04 AM, Kindred Spirits said:

Sometimes its worth it to have a professional do an assessment.  One service we offer is product evaluations. Often times our clients find themselves in the exact same position you find yourself in, so we take the time to test the product and report any potential off putting characteristics that most consumers look for.

We also can conduct a blind tasting with your spirit compared to others well known within the category, this allows for better transparency on developing recipes and reduces some of the factors that can effect the outcome of a tasting.

What do you charge for this service of professional assessment of Gin? 

 

[Kindred Spirits]

55 minutes ago, NEWTOTHIS said:

What do you charge for this service of professional assessment of Gin? 

 

PM sent

[whiskeytango]

The problem with any focus group (professional tasters or just off the street) is that everyone has an opinion.  Im in the camp of make something you like and stand by it.  If your relying on focus groups to drive your profile your going to be all over the place trying to pick something.