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Open Flames?


danielw88

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they seem to be common enough with many startup distilleries.

open flame and alcohol vapor do not make a safe situation , IMHO

what about natural gas heater for your shop . they are mostly pretty high off the ceiling. seems like most newer buildings i have looked at are heated this way. they must have a pilot lite

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Will posted some info on this recently

http://adiforums.com/index.php?showtopic=1645

IMHO if your flu from the burner draws properly it will suck a lot of the alcohol vapour into the burner where they will add very slightly to your heating.

Under normal operating conditions if your still room has good ventilation then fresh air will be drawn inside, diluting the alcohol vapour and keeping it well below the critical concentration for an explosion.

A still room without a flame in a flu, and with poor ventilation is more likely to explode with a chance spark from an electrical switch for example

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So I have a question: are open flaims/gas burner stills and issue for issurance/regulatores?

We had to install an electronic gas detection system, that is sensitive to LPG(Propane) and Ethanol Vapour. It has an interlock on the main switchboard so the stills and associated equipment will not power up until the gas levels are safe. We also had to get a zoning engineer in (at HUGE expense).

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We had to install an electronic gas detection system, that is sensitive to LPG(Propane) and Ethanol Vapour.

What bureaucratic department made you do that?

I guess that is one problem with a new building that can be sealed up almost airtight.

My distillery is in an old horse stable, I pointed out my ventilation system to the building inspector and he said "that's just holes in the roof" haha

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Insurance and regulators really don't deserve a "slash" like in the original post... They both hold the power to shut down your operation, but they each would/could do so for different reasons. This really is one of those perfect situations where location is going to play a big factor in what you can get away with, unregulated. However, even if something is non-prohibited, that doesn't mean an insurance company isn't going to pick apart the risks of your operation on their own. If you have an open flame intentionally, I'd bet money on the fact your insurance compay will tack on a fee for that extra risk. And if they don't do it intially, they will when they send out a "loss prevention specialist" to evaluate your operation and tell you what you should change if you want to remain insured. While I don't distill with an open flame, i have been down the "loss prevention specialist" path, and have been threatened with "non-renewal" unless reccomendations were implemented.

Reach out to your local government immediatly and see what they will permit, then contact the county, then contact the state. Each level will all have some agency that is responsible for regulating what you are doing with distilled spirits, whether it's the department of agriculture, or the department of public safety. You may find it's not that bad (like in Maine). You may find it's going to be an absolut nightmare. There are some horror stories of what people have been put through by their local government on the forum, really worth a read to remember how lucky some of us have it.

Good Luck.

-Scott

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What bureaucratic department made you do that?

I guess that is one problem with a new building that can be sealed up almost airtight.

My distillery is in an old horse stable, I pointed out my ventilation system to the building inspector and he said "that's just holes in the roof" haha

It was a nervous electrician who escalated to Energy Australia, they panicked due to the ethanol related explosion at Draytons Wines, 3 years back. Anyway, they refused connection until we had a zone engineer pass the place. All good now, and the detector is piece of mind, not for the ethanol vapour, but the LPG. LPG is the real explosion risk.

rich..

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That was a bit of costly bad luck getting that inspector Rich, but as you say it is peace of mind for the LPG risk (I think USA calls it "propane" in case some of you are confused.)

Alcohol vapors rise!

I am not sure if you sure trying to say alcohol vapour is lighter than air!

It is heavier (denser) than air ,Air = approx 1.2Kg/ metre3 , alcohol vapour approx 1.6 and LPG 1.9

therefore alcohol and LPG vapour will sink to the floor in still air.

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Rich, I have just read an article on the Draytons explosion. I see why the inspector was so nervous.

From what I understand it was a bit of an extreme situation, welding a tank containing 9,000 litres of 190 proof alcohol !!

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when I was much younger, I built boats. the fiberglass resin we used was much less flammable then alcohol, but the regulations we had to follow were much more extreme than most distilleries are required to.

even the furnaces couldn't have a lit pilot light, and had to draw combustion air from outside.

air exchange requirements were high too, but that would be more to do with the poisonous chemicals in the air.

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I'd like to put in a direct-fired still at some point, but I'd put it outside, with bricks all around it to enclose it (and insulate). The lyne arm could then come into the building. Alternately, one could build a separate room with a double door "airlock" to isolate the still.

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That was a bit of costly bad luck getting that inspector Rich, but as you say it is peace of mind for the LPG risk (I think USA calls it "propane" in case some of you are confused.)

I am not sure if you sure trying to say alcohol vapour is lighter than air!

It is heavier (denser) than air ,Air = approx 1.2Kg/ metre3 , alcohol vapour approx 1.6 and LPG 1.9

therefore alcohol and LPG vapour will sink to the floor in still air.

your spot on with that.

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