Hewnspirits Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 Just thought I'd share a picture of our 125 gallon (100 gallon charge) copper pot still to date. We'll keep updating the pictures as we get further along in the build. We should have our ball and cone style head/neck wrapped up within the next week. Cheers, Sean Hewn Spirits LLC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott @ Twenty2Vodka Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 Hi Hewnspirits, looks like the pic wasn't successfully attached? -Scott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hewnspirits Posted June 5, 2012 Author Share Posted June 5, 2012 Lets try this again....going to have to play with my image sizing me thinks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HedgeBird Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 Wow. That think looks awesome. So many questions.. How thick is your copper plate? How did you create the dome? How is it going to be heated? How big of a man-way did you go with? You need to post some more pics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hewnspirits Posted June 5, 2012 Author Share Posted June 5, 2012 Thanks Hedge...you know us Pa. guys have to try and set a good example!! We went with 12 and 14 Gauge and used an old timey belt driven planishing hammer for the two domes....one on top and one at the bottom. The seams will be beefed up with additional copper banding as well as a water jet cut stainless ring overlay which will also serve as the top mounting flange for the stainless insulated jacket. Very similar to the picture of the ring I saw on your posting. The man-way is 10" and I have 2" and 1.5" triclamp ports on top of the dome for various attachments/uses. As far as heat....well, we're working through that right now. Not sure we want to go with steam and have been talking to lots of folks in the know about using a heat tranfer fluid in the insulated jacket and then heating using either immersed elements or direct fire under the base of the jacket. Hope to have that worked out this week. Here's the basic configuration with the Ball and Cone head for rum and whiskey. We're also planning on making a 6" column that we can swap out when we want do vodka. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedd Haas Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 Very cool. I'm thinking of using heat transfer fluid for our next still, I'd be very interested to hear how that works, if you use it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViolentBlue Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 our 60 gallon units with electric heat and oil in the jacket work very well. Biodiesel will last longer before degrading then regular cooking oil or propyleneglycol will. just make sure whatever transfer medium you use is food safe, just incase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hewnspirits Posted June 6, 2012 Author Share Posted June 6, 2012 Hi VB... Yeah we're still looking into our various options and should have that worked out in short order. I'll keep you posted for sure but in the meantime, here's a picture of our nearly completed ball and cone style head. Should have it wrapped up in another day or two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViolentBlue Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 so are you thinking of electric heat? if so I can put you in touch with my controls guy. he's very good. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedd Haas Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 hi Sean, can you post a picture of the "old timey belt driven planishing hammer"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hewnspirits Posted June 7, 2012 Author Share Posted June 7, 2012 No prob Jedd...I'll throw a pic of the hammer up tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hewnspirits Posted June 8, 2012 Author Share Posted June 8, 2012 Here ya be Jedd....Hammer time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteB Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 our 60 gallon units with electric heat and oil in the jacket work very well. Biodiesel will last longer before degrading then regular cooking oil or propyleneglycol will. just make sure whatever transfer medium you use is food safe, just incase. BIODIESEL now that is interesting. I had contemplated using it but didn't realise it was an accepted heat transfer liquid. My still runs on biodiesel so I could gradually cycle it through my heating jacket before I burn it, then it won't have time to degrade. My current still is direct fired but my next build will be a stripping still with a biodiesel oil jacket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedd Haas Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 Re: hammer time, very interesting. Did you have to re-anneal a bunch of times while forming the half-dome? Also, is the half dome all one piece? It kind of looks like two pieces joined together in your picture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott @ Twenty2Vodka Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 Also RE Hammer time, cool pic....perhaps a silly question, but what is the noise like hitting a giant copper "bell" thousands of times to get it into shape? Maybe i should ask your neighbors? haha RE: Heat transfer liquid, is this something many people use? What's a ballpark for the lifespan if using "natural" foodsafe ingredents like bio diesel? And what's the purpose of making sure the transfer liquid is food safe...specifically, if some got into your batch, you'd have a big problem on your hands and would likely discard the entire batch anyway...wouldn't you? Shouldn't you? THanks! -Scott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hewnspirits Posted June 8, 2012 Author Share Posted June 8, 2012 To Jedd... The top dome is made in two pieces. The first being the more radiused section and the second or lower portion of the dome is the less radiused portion that then attaches to the center cylinder. We annealed each dome 2-3 times during the process...mostly at the joint seams. To Scott....Lets put it this way, my partner who did the hammering doesn't have much in the way of mid range hearing anymore but it's more from the constant det det det det det and not any real ringing. It's more like a sharp tapping....lots and lots of sharp tapping. Seems the heat transfer fluids come in all sorts of specs...lower temp, higher temp, more viscous, less viscous, tasty, not so tasty. With all that variety obviously comes the myriad of associated useful operating lifespans. From what I can tell so far, the synthetics seems to last longer than natural oils and the big degredation in each type comes from oxidization and amount of applied heat and heating cycle. Huge difference in price betwen synthetic and natural. Some synthetics run close to $1500 per 55 gal drum that should last between 6 months and 5 years depending on the variables mentioned above. I hear ya though with the whole food grade notion concept. I certainly wouldn't offer up anything that I suspected had been contaminated with anything...including "food grade" heat transfer oils. Seems the real challenge would be knowing if and when you lost some from the jacket into the boil kettle. I guess the idea is that this stuff is so viscous, tiny trace amounts might get into your boil and you might not know it for a bit until your system detected a decrease in the HTF level??? That's the only thing that I can figure. Maybe someone else can offer some insight? I have another meeting with an expert in the field early next week and will report back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hewnspirits Posted June 20, 2012 Author Share Posted June 20, 2012 Next we start working on the stainless jacket. Hope to get some parts back from the water jet man pronto! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick jones Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 I'd like to reiterate one of Scott's questions re: heat transfer fluids. Is this something than many people out there use? I've seen the ease and versitility of steam heating in so many different applications that I find it difficult to imagine why one of these HeX fluids would make sense for a distiller. But the more that I learn, the more that it seems that many people are using HeX fluid in stills under 125 gallons or so (125 gallons is the largest volume that I've heard yet. Anyone using HeX fluid on a similar or larger still?) Is it that the HeX fluid is an effective buffer between an electric element and the mash being distilled (vs. direct submersion of the electric element in the mash) so as to prevent scorching? Is there significantly less capital outlay for an electrical heating element (plus whatever additional fluids and controls are necessary for the HeX fluid setup) vs. an electrical steam generator with traditional steam fittings in stills of 125 gallons or less? Is it a code matter? Do local regulators give people a hard time about a low-pressure steam boiler but don't about an electric element submersed in biodiesel? Sean, it seems that you've done your research, so I'd love to hear why you're leaning toward HeX fluid. VB, you're obviously well qualified, so ditto to you too. This one has been perplexing me for a while now. Maybe I just love my steam a little too much. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViolentBlue Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 using electricity and heat transfer fluid in smaller sizes is more about cost than anything else. no need for a steam boiler. I have a pair of 30 gallon steam boiler that are being finished up right now. their end users already have steam in place, but want small stills for test batches. yes I seem to be selling a lot of the 60 gallon units with electric heat and heat transfer fluids, because 60 gallons is enough to get started, but not enough for full production. to drive a similarily sized steam jacketed still, you'd either have to purchase a steam boiler that will be to small for real production, or one that is way bigger than is needed for small production. it all comes down to dollars and cents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick jones Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 using electricity and heat transfer fluid in smaller sizes is more about cost than anything else. Makes sense. Is there some problem with direct immersion of a low heat density heating element in the mash? Wouldn't that be less expensive? Why the fluid? Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hewnspirits Posted June 22, 2012 Author Share Posted June 22, 2012 Hi Nick VB hit most of it on the nose. Not only is a steam set up more costly on a smaller unit like ours, we have zoning and code regs that make it not worth the hassle on the scale that were talking about. I'm fully aware of the efficiency of water and steam as heat transfer mediums but the math just doesn't add up for us on this scale. We had originally planned on going with either a direct immersion heating element in a non jacketed tank but ultimatly weren't real jazzed about the prospect of super huge electric bills as a result of two mongo elements sucking all those KW's for hours on end. Additionally, I wasn't fond of the idea of all the heat coming in direct contact with various washes. Sure you could rachet the KW's down but at the detriment of finishing a run in much much more time. All that being said, Once our spirits are flying off the shelves......pause for effect.....we'll most likely join in on the steam bandwagon and will look back with fond memories of the old timey days when we ran our little 125 gallon handmade pot still till the wheels came off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick jones Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 Not only is a steam set up more costly on a smaller unit like ours, Hewn, I'd say that your beautiful still is on the other side of smaller, and into the realm of practical. Personally, I'd add a 300-500 gallon stripping still (when demand called for it) so that I could run that gorgeous baby in three (or more) shifts per day. I figure that'd yield you nearly one 53 gallon barrel per day, which would probably pay the bills. Speaking of multiple shift distilling, what sort of condenser are you planning for your baby? Nick P.S. I had an engineer in the distillery the other day advocating an alternative to electric heating. He said he had a boiler that was fueled by dollar bills that was way more efficient. I had a good laugh about that one. I can definitely see the utility of a HeX fluid as a buffer between direct heat and the wash. I can't wait to try your wares! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluestar Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 Well, there is a bain marie, that is, water as the HX fluid. That is what we do, although there is a challenge not generating steam as the water temp gets close to boiling. Adding a small amount of glycol would alleviate that, of course, but we haven't discuss such operation yet with the manufacturer (Vendome). We have a 40KW immersion heater in the water bath and a thermocouple feedback cycling relay controller. Heats a 50-60gal copper pot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hewnspirits Posted June 23, 2012 Author Share Posted June 23, 2012 Nick...great minds think alike. The plan is to add a 350 gallon stripper the minute I feel that our sales are moving in the slightest positive direction. At that point, the 125 gallon still we become the spirit still. Bluestar....looking into the ratio of propylene glycol to water that would needed to raise the boiling point of water was quite surprising. Basically you would have a ratio of at least 50% propylene glycol to 50% water to significantly raise the boiling point of the mixture. At that point, you might as well just use a HeX fluid and not have to worry about the possibility of boiling off your H2O propylene glycol mix....at least that's my take on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViolentBlue Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 Nick...great minds think alike. The plan is to add a 350 gallon stripper the minute I feel that our sales are moving in the slightest positive direction. At that point, the 125 gallon still we become the spirit still. Bluestar....looking into the ratio of propylene glycol to water that would needed to raise the boiling point of water was quite surprising. Basically you would have a ratio of at least 50% propylene glycol to 50% water to significantly raise the boiling point of the mixture. At that point, you might as well just use a HeX fluid and not have to worry about the possibility of boiling off your H2O propylene glycol mix....at least that's my take on it. had the same conversation, as well Propylene Glycol breaks down and is many times more expensive than food grade oil. this is what pushed us in the direction of boidiesel. cost effective and long lasting as a heat transfer fluid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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