Max Action Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 I was thinking about ordering a hardcopy of the CFR's from the US Govt. bookstore. I'm tired of always going back to the computer to look something up, and the online version isn't exactly printer friendly. What I don't know is the quality of the Govt. printing. Anyone have an official publication? Is it a properly bound book? Is the text layout and fontsize composed well for easy reading? Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott @ Twenty2Vodka Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 i've seen a printed copy of the regs once, it was waved in front of the group (At a distilling class back in 2006?) as an example of the quanitity of "stuff" to concern ourselves with as future distillers. I remember it being like 3-4 inches thick... it stood up to the waving around by the instructor,...that's all i have for you RE quality. But more imporantly, why again are you trading away the ability to instantly search that vast document? To save trips to the computer? This baffles me. You will easily spend as much time referencing tables of contents and then trying to find secions, articles, paragraphs, items, as you will by returning to the computer to digitally search for exactly what you are looking to reference. Maybe I'm stating the obvious, but the electronic version is a huge improvement over the printed version because of the amount of information that document contains. And the digital version is FREE!! and already available!! Maybe move your computer closer? Or look up the document on your smart phone? Or invest the money the printed copy will cost you on a smart phone that can look it up and do lots of other things too? Technology is a good thing. Best of Luck with this. -Scott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohninWV Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 Ok, one of the rare times I don't agree with Scott. I printed them out, and took them to a local shop to have them bound. I read through every bit of the documentation...several times. I also highlighted several sections and wrote notes on there. It was much easier with a hard copy than a digital copy...for me anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott @ Twenty2Vodka Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 :-P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Parker Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 I bought a copy two years ago, highlighted it all over, made notes in the margins, flagged pages and read myself to sleep with it every night for a month. Pretty good investment, I must say. I still refer to it often, since it has all my highlights and notes. Just my 2 cents (or $35, to be more accurate). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott @ Twenty2Vodka Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 Jess (my wife and our master distiller) has just informed me how horriably off my opinion on this is. She says she too would have wanted a hard copy to referece while working out the process. So.....yeah. But in my experience with the startup licenses, and when i need to reference the standards of identity sections for our label design requirements, I've aways gotten by with good old HTML and ctrl+F. -Scott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohninWV Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 Leave it to Jess to keep you straight. Of course, I'm sure you know that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedd Haas Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 There is a link on the TTB site where you can download a PDF. I did that, and printed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hewnspirits Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 I too ordered the hardcopy version from the Gubment for $35 and find it much more practical to flip through an actual book vs. running to the nearest computer or trying to read already microscopic print on a smart phone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 Yep, even the TTB agent that did our audit had the hardcopy with sticky notes everywhere... Hardcopy is a great for bookmarking or highlighting sections of interest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluestar Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 Remember, that is 900 pages to print, so if your cost per page is much more than 3 cents, it would be cheaper to buy the bound volume ;-) Cheapest laser printers run about 1.5 cents per page for ink, plus the cost of two reams of paper at $12/ream (cheapest), that is going to be hard to beat. Current price is $37 including free shipping (USPO), and last revision date is April 2012. OK, I convinced me, I am ordering one ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
okolehao Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 I wanted to get some clarification on CFR 27 when looking at the online version. It looks like parts 1-39 are the areas that pertain distilleries and alcohol. Are there any other sections that I should be reading and studying? Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick jones Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 I wanted to get some clarification on CFR 27 when looking at the online version... Are there any other sections that I should be reading and studying? Thanks. Put on a pot of coffee, pull up a chair, and make sure that your puke bucket is nearby: http://www.ttb.gov/spirits/common_compliance_tax_issues-during-audits-ds.shtml Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mash Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 I bought mine from the gov't book store, $140.00. But I ue them all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HedgeBird Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 http://bookstore.gpo.gov/actions/GetPublication.do?stocknumber=869-076-00103-8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott @ Twenty2Vodka Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 Yep, even the TTB agent that did our audit had the hardcopy with sticky notes everywhere... Hardcopy is a great for bookmarking or highlighting sections of interest. what was the audit experience like? Was this part of the federal walkthru? (not all of us have been inspected by the TTB yet, but I know it's coming eventually...still licensed and operating, just never had the privalege an official TTB visit...) Did they give you a heads up and then take over your office going through your gauging records until they decided they were finished? Maybe a topic for a new thread, but I'd sure like to know what they put you through if you wouldn't mind sharing..... Thanks very much, -Scott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 what was the audit experience like? Was this part of the federal walkthru? (not all of us have been inspected by the TTB yet, but I know it's coming eventually...still licensed and operating, just never had the privalege an official TTB visit...) Did they give you a heads up and then take over your office going through your gauging records until they decided they were finished? Maybe a topic for a new thread, but I'd sure like to know what they put you through if you wouldn't mind sharing..... Thanks very much, -Scott This wasn't the walk through (we've been open two years now). My audit was what the TTB calls a "Product Integrity Audit". The agent insisted it was a random audit, she does several a year. She spent three days at the distillery. It was a bit involved to fully discuss here, but be sure, they are coming and they will find something you aren't doing right. :-) We passed the audit however and are happy to have learned from the experience. Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flip2spin23 Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 What about a hard copy of ttb tables 1-6 that could be helpful also.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrEwing Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 Looks like I'm buying tthe book. Does any one know of any software or record keeping application for keeping TTB Records. I've found my site and will be signing the lease and then making application for Licensing. I'm not distilling so I hope all goes smoothly and quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick jones Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 Seriously, after reading the above link to common compliance issues in TTB audits of DSPs, can anyone out there say that they are complying with more than 50% of the regs? Has anyone actually read that link? The regs are all fine and dandy for Diageo, but, seriously, daily records of my inventory with signed affirmations under penalty of purjury? How's about I pay my taxes (which are so insignificant that they don't even notice them) and we call it good... eh? Not that a handsomely bound volume of regulations ever hurts anyone's image... Nick P.S. How many of you actually have PINs on your barrels as per the regulations? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluestar Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 Seriously, after reading the above link to common compliance issues in TTB audits of DSPs, can anyone out there say that they are complying with more than 50% of the regs? Has anyone actually read that link? ... P.S. How many of you actually have PINs on your barrels as per the regulations? yeah, it's something, isn't it? initially, we have been recording every daily detail in a general log, essentially a chronological lab notebook, and then transferring relevant information into the categories required. we plan to move to regular use of a database to maintain the required information, while maintaining the general log for details for our own needs. general rule has been, you do it, you write it down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowdery Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 As a publisher, I think a lot about print versus digital. There still seems to be a place for paper and there is nothing that precludes you from using both, according to the situation. If you want to be a distiller, you're going to spend a lot of time with the regs. You should use anything and everything that helps you understand and comply with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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