tl5612 Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 Hello Perhaps this is a daft question... But I would like to know what the norm is for storing 96% ABV neutral grain spirit in a distillery, and wondered if anyone could help? Is it just kept at 96% ABV in a steel tank? Or do distillers dilute it down to something less hazardous, perhaps say, 55% ABV? Many thanks in advance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhynorange Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 Depends how you're planning on using it, and how much storage space and tanks you have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tl5612 Posted August 17, 2012 Author Share Posted August 17, 2012 Plan is to make gin with it. Broadly speaking, what do most distilleries do? Is it standard practice to store it at 96%ABV? Or is it standard practice to dilute it? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panoscape Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 I'd proof it down to 50% if you're doing infusions, 40% if you're going straight into the bottle. 50% has a flash point at 74F degrees and 40% at 79F degrees. Those are a little safer than a 63F degree flash point of 96%. If you have a hot shop temp wise, it doesn't make much difference though. SS containers are best, but you can get by with plastic totes. Make sure to check your city fire rating so you know how much GNS you can have on your production floor at one time. I'll be classified an F1 with sprinklers, which will allow me 240 gallons on the production floor at one time. Bulk users will most likely have an exterior storage tank that is piped into their distillery. This allows them to make bulk purchases and store it at 96% for long periods of time. Seeing that it is outside of the distillery, in an open area, their storage is not restricted by the fire code rating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tl5612 Posted August 17, 2012 Author Share Posted August 17, 2012 Thanks very much. If anyone else has anything to add, or say how they do things differently, that would be great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott @ Twenty2Vodka Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 This will be determined by your local red-tape agencies, but if they are indifferent, keep it at 96%. Diluting it down is simple. Getting it back up high requires the D in ADI +time+energy+money+bigger equipment etc... And don't let "Flashpoint" be a driving factor either. Flashpoint requires an ignition source...you should already plan on keeping the immediate area around your alcohol storage "free" of ignition sources Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedd Haas Posted August 18, 2012 Share Posted August 18, 2012 To add on Ross' comments re: outside tanks, you need a TTB-approved lock for such tanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Action Posted August 18, 2012 Share Posted August 18, 2012 I'll be classified an F1 with sprinklers, which will allow me 240 gallons on the production floor at one time. Probably important to remind folks that it's only 120 gallons without sprinklers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluestar Posted August 18, 2012 Share Posted August 18, 2012 And, because of how the code is set up for F1, you will keep half as much on the floor if you dilute to 50%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panoscape Posted August 19, 2012 Share Posted August 19, 2012 All great advice. Another thing to consider is that once it's bottled, it no longer counts towards your floor tally. Hence the reason for proofing it down to the desired % as soon as possible and getting it bottled. You don't make any $ with 96% GNS sitting on your floor. As soon as it hits the receiving dock, process it ASAP and get it in bottles/cases so it gets out of your floor tally and into the stores. Ya gotta keep them lights on somehow. Just another word of advice, if you decide to use GNS without any redistilling, you might not want to use the word distillery in your name, just out of respect for the art. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rickdiculous Posted August 19, 2012 Share Posted August 19, 2012 One addition to this equation I would like to make. While many of you are doing all you can to keep ignition sources to a minimum you can't eliminate all of them. I would wager you all have electric lights with switches and we have all seen those spark at one time or another. Don't let your guard down. Static Electricity may be one of the most overlooked dangers in distilleries, especially on the small scale. While doing my internship at MSU, I was surprised and then glad I got to see the crew using grounding cords on all of the tanks they used for GNS when transferring from container to container, or container to still, etc. They grounded the tanks, and the stills. When transferring GNS between tanks do not run the alcohol so it rides the side of the tank, like you do to reduce head on a beer out of the tap. This creates static electricity. I think the advice to process it ASAP may be some of the best advice on here. Have a plan for your GNS before you order and get to it when you get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pressure9pa Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 Thanks for posting Rick, do you mind going into more detail about how the grounding was set up? I'm picturing a pretty simple attachment on all applicable containers, just wanted to make sure I'm not missing anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tl5612 Posted August 20, 2012 Author Share Posted August 20, 2012 Thanks very much everyone. Really interesting about the grounding cords Guess they are this sort of thing http://www.newson-gale.com/OurProducts/CenStat/Grounding_Station.asp Panoscape - don't worry. No cold compounding for me. I am going to visit some more distilleries and see how the big boys do it. Being from the UK, Plymouth Gin will be first up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rickdiculous Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 They used something almost exactly the same as what tl5612 is suggesting. Long copper coiled wire with large alligator type clips on them. They didn't use the fancy grounding plate in that picture. They would connect the barrel with the GNS in it to the whatever it was transferred too, and then ground it to a large metal object. In their specific case it was the iron floor drains which run out of the building into the ground. I thing in most small situations it wouldn't hurt to have that nice plate installed with a proper ground where you will do your transfering. I think I have a picture of the grounding in action. I will look for it and try to post it if I do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteB Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 VENTILATION. I haven't seen this mentioned on this thread. Good ventilation should keep the alcohol vapour concentration well below the explosive limit so if all other safety devices fail your distillery will not go BANG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zymurgist Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 We always store GNS at 96% in a stainless steel tank with spark arrestor in a class 1, div 1 area. In my humble opinion, I avoid plastic at all costs at higher alcohol levels; below 50% it is not as concerning. Last thing I want in any of my products is a nice plastic aroma or flavor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panoscape Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Just had our fire protection engineer inspection regarding our F1 rating. We can not have more than 60 gallons of alcohol that is above 60% ABV at one time in our sprinklered shop. We can have up to 240 gallons of below 60% ABV. So one could store a 55 gallon drum of 96% GNS on the floor of a sprinklered F1, but that's about it, with 5 gallons left of room on the floor, you can't do much. To get the extra 130 or so gallons room space on the floor we'd have to proof it down as soon as it came in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott @ Twenty2Vodka Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 can someone point me to some resource that describes what is meant by F1 fire code? I'm pretty good at googleing, and that query doesn't provide any results that seem relevant to this thread. thanks. -Scott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panoscape Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 @ Scott, I tried googling it too and came up with nothing. I'll ask my FPE guy to send me the info and post it here if he does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveflintstone Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 Way back (well it seems like a long time ago) when I was getting screwed around by a local Fire Safety Dept. I went to the library and looked at the Fire Code books. All the F1 info is in there. Seems to me the key is not to "store" anything, but "process" it. fyi, it is frowned upon to look at porn on library computers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrEwing Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 I keep running into the same problem for the past month. recommendations have been to install fireproof containment "cabinets" or build rooms made from fire retardant material to be able to contain the fire hazard. The financial challenge is daunting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brothers Vilgalys Spirits Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 I have a 2-drum fire safety cabinet for GNS. That made our inspector happy. Got it from Global Industrial for something like $1400. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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