cowdery Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 I predict this will blow your minds, especially if you've struggled with TTB over the labeling of your white whiskey products. http://chuckcowdery....ne-neutral.html JD, not surprisingly, puts it all on TTB. I've asked TTB for their side. This makes no sense. The regs say 'neutral spirit' is spirit distilled above 190° proof (95% ABV), yet the new Jack Daniel's Tennessee Unaged Rye is classified 'neutral spirit,' even though it was only distilled to 140° proof (70% ABV). JD insisted it was 'unaged whiskey' due to it having no contact with wood, but (according to JD) TTB preferred 'neutral spirit.' Anybody here ever make or taste a 140° proof spirit that was neutral? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles@AEppelTreow Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 I was confused briefly - since I normally work with fruit, and the BAM lists a class/type of 'neutral brandy' 170 > proof > 190. Wouldn't it be a class = specialty, type = spirit distilled from rye, etc.? Our first sorghum batch was labeled that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pressure9pa Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 Unreal. Really curious to get the TTB's side of this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluestar Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 I was confused briefly - since I normally work with fruit, and the BAM lists a class/type of 'neutral brandy' 170 > proof > 190. Wouldn't it be a class = specialty, type = spirit distilled from rye, etc.? Our first sorghum batch was labeled that way. I read BAM the way Cowdry does: this does not fit into any existing type. It is clear it should be in the Whisky class, it strictly fits the definition. So wouldn't it have been better for TTB to have said to classify it as "whiskey" with no type attribution rather than misclassify it as neutral spirits? And wouldn't the easiest change be to create a type, if the TTB were to make a change, by analogy to the class "brandy" and create the type "neutral whiskey"? Can't we get a few hundred like-minded distillers to sign a petition or mass e-mail to make this request? I would base the description on the description for "light whiskey", just specifically say that is is not aged in wood barrels. The problem remains, wouldn't this be still the same as requesting a category "white whiskey", just a different name? But they may go for it. Ah, but this raises another issue for another untyped "whiskey": whiskey aged in wood other than oak. Bwaaahahahaha! Sorry, couldn't help myself. But your final comment I think is correct: normally they would have said it is class "specialty" with descriptive type "spirits distilled from rye" or "spirits distilled from grain". They don't require you to indicate the class, if you have the proper descriptive type, I believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowdery Posted October 12, 2012 Author Share Posted October 12, 2012 Lobbying the TTB for anything is why you join a trade association like ADI or DISCUS. I don't think ADI is very sophisticated about lobbying, but DISCUS certainly is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowdery Posted October 24, 2012 Author Share Posted October 24, 2012 The TTB says it agrees with me, but bureau policy prevents them from telling me what they are going to do about it. I have asked Jack Daniel's for comment. Still waiting to hear back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CountySeat Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 If it doesn't touch wood, it isn't whisky under the Federal Regs (See 27 CFR 5.22). That is why some white whiskeys are "briefly" stored in wood to satisfy the requirement but still be clear. Wigle Whiskey in Pittsburgh does that to sell a white rye spirit as a "whiskey": "Western Pennsylvania was once world famous for Monongehela Rye—a white whiskey that was widely exported in the 18th and 19th centuries. When our local, organic rye arrives at the door of Wigle Whiskey after harvest, we mill the grain ourselves on the same day we start a batch to ensure the freshest, fullest flavor. Using only organic grains means that the full flavor of the grains comes through, unadulterated by added chemicals. We distill the grain in our traditional pot still, to achieve the complex spice that gives our rye its character. The whiskey is briefly stored in white oak barrels before being bottled on site. This is crafted and refined to be enjoyed unadulterated. But it also works beautifully in cocktails." You can call something a whiskey or bourbon and it can still be virtually clear as long as you barrel it for any amount of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clearwaterbrewer Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 Any update? How about Trybox new make "Rye Whiskey"? It says 'straight from the still' and 'Rye Whiskey' ont eh same label, no mention of aging in oak... http://www.binnys.com/spirits/Trybox_Series_Rye_New_Make_Whiskey_Straight_from_the_Still_by_Heaven_Hill_31661.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowdery Posted January 23, 2013 Author Share Posted January 23, 2013 Sorry. I posted it in another section. They changed the classification to "spirits distilled from grain." The full story is here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Okperioimplant Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 I don't know much about the TTB stuff yet, but my conspiracy theorist in me says that JD is a big dog and pays lots of money to government! I am sure that they have "special circumstances" for just such a big dog. They do in government so why not alcohol!?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedd Haas Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 They certainly pay big money to attorneys who finagle such matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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