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Is there a place for continuous stills in craft whiskey distilling ?


stevea

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I expect I'll get a few swats for this question, but it has to be considered.

There is a long and venerable tradition wrt pot stills and batch processing, but in nearly every respect, from costs, power, labor, repeat-ability, continuous stills would seem to have an edge. Obviously all the big boys use very large continuous stills for at least one stage of processing.

Does anyone make a continuous still for craft scale distilling ? I see Arnold Holstein makes some, but a bigger capacity and AFAICT there is no feature for separating heads in the images..

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I believe that Steven from Artisan Still Design has plans for a continuous still, scaled for the craft producer, that is "in the can" awaiting to be perfected and offered. Why not contact him and make a deal? For the referral, please let me know how that goes! Mr Aeneas Coffey would be proud!

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Steve,

This is a great question.

When I decided to enter the field about 3 years ago, I went around looking for Continuous Stills and didn't find anything. My background was design, manufacture, and operations of continuous distillation systems (10-60 MGY) and knew from that experience that the most efficient and precise distillation regimes required continuous distillation.

So, we designed and built our own continuous stills for artisan beverage alcohol, based on the fact that I couldn't find one to buy. I'll be announcing them on this forum late next week. However, in summary;

  • Our design distills 1000g of 10% ABV wash in 12-16 hours.
  • Single pass, no stripping run then spirit run.
  • All heads automatically stripped.
  • Tails less than 2% ABV
  • Computer controlled for temperatures, levels, flows.
  • Can simultaneously deliver a finished whiskey and vodka on the same run from the same wash.
  • 2 skids, each 4'x4'x10'.
  • Power requirements are 300-350K btu/hr heat input, 20A 120v service, and cooling water.
  • Delivery 4 months from order.

There are a few continuous stripping stills offered by Carl, Vendome, and others. And although the first column of my three column skid can be used as a stripping still, our system is more fully a complete distillation system.

We've been running our stills for the last 10 months, so I can speak to them as functional units in a functioning distillery.

Sorry for the teaser. More complete info, including specs, pictures, design, & costs will be available next week. Until then have a great New Year.

Cheers.

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yes we are in process of building our prototype continuous stripping system.

as mentioned other companies have these for sale as well. our goal is to build something that it scaled a little better for the Micro distiller in volume of wash processed as well as height and Pricing.

we don't want to offer any system for sale until we are 100% confident in it, so the April Conference should bring some pricing and detailed info on the unit.

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I think within the next few years you will see a lot more continuous still in small distilleries. If you make bourbon they make a better product than a pot, and are way more cost efective than pots. There are several in place now, and several are being constructed. They are general cheaper than pots as well.

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I think within the next few years you will see a lot more continuous still in small distilleries. If you make bourbon they make a better product than a pot, and are way more cost efective than pots. There are several in place now, and several are being constructed. They are general cheaper than pots as well.

I would dis agree with you on one point but agree on another

in my opinion batch distillation makes a much better bourbon than continuous, but continuous is more cost and time effective.

this is part of my prejudice designing this as a striping still, not a production still. yes with some tweaks it could be an all out production unit, but where would the craft be in that. I'm in love with craft distilling and would be saddened to see our stills making bad (or at least inferior) whiskey.

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All a matter of opinion. In my opinion, a beer still and doubler leave more flavor in the white dog, therfore more flavor in the end product. Are you of the mindset that there is no "craft" in making whiskey on a continuous still?

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All a matter of opinion. In my opinion, a beer still and doubler leave more flavor in the white dog, therfore more flavor in the end product. Are you of the mindset that there is no "craft" in making whiskey on a continuous still?

not that there is no craft in a continuous setup, just its harder to produce the same quality of product that u would get with batch distillation.

there are many ways to skin a cat, there are some that a double run with potstill is the only way to make a bourbon, or single run with doubler, or maybe a plated column tuned to put out barrel proof in a single run.

the product will vary from process to process, but they despite their differences can be equally good whiskey.

in the case of a continuous stripping system, I would suggest strip to 50-60% low wines, then mixing 2-1 with new wash for spirit run on a plated column tuned to put out at barreling proof. In my mind this gives the best of efficiency and flavor.

But thats just my opinion on the matter.

Steve

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not that there is no craft in a continuous setup, just its harder to produce the same quality of product that u would get with batch distillation.

there are many ways to skin a cat, there are some that a double run with potstill is the only way to make a bourbon, or single run with doubler, or maybe a plated column tuned to put out barrel proof in a single run.

the product will vary from process to process, but they despite their differences can be equally good whiskey.

in the case of a continuous stripping system, I would suggest strip to 50-60% low wines, then mixing 2-1 with new wash for spirit run on a plated column tuned to put out at barreling proof. In my mind this gives the best of efficiency and flavor.

But that's just my opinion on the matter.

Steve

Very interesting comments all. And I am not in a position to compare from personal distilling experience, but there are clearly some great commercial whiskies made on a continuous still, and similarly on pot stills.

So to the point - why would a continuous still fundamentally produce inferior product ? Yes there are no in-process or time-domain changes to be made, but that's an advantage. You can't practically add plates to an existing still, but the reflux ratio can be changed per run and packing or rachig rings or similar added to effect plates.

The procedure Steve suggests above to produce 50-60% "low" wines is approaching barrel proof, and then dilution w/ wash to 33-40% in another column is a puzzling approach if one considers what is happening to the vapor fractions. I'm certainly not suggesting he is wrong, but it's hard to understand where the advantage may come from. Perhaps the idea is that the second distillation has low reflux, fewer plates and so incorporates more wash flavors.

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biggest issue with continuous systems is the heads and tails extraction.

this can be done in a continuous column, but you will always end up with some "bleed" into the hearts.

this can still make a good whiskey, just typically requires longer in the barrel to achieve this.

also such a system would be completely automated, which would be hard to describe as craft.

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If you were to age at the right proof, in the right barrels, there is no reason to not be able to turn out as good or even a better product than a pot. And not all continuous setups are automated. They do not have to be. In fact, I am told that until wild turkey built their new plant, the column was operated by a guy stting in a chair beside it feeling the vibrations of it and adjusting it by the way it felt. If that is not craft, than I do not know what is.

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most commercial distilleries are computer controlled, Wild turkey likely is no different

i personally wouldn't argue Wild Turkey was a craft distillery.

not saying continuous distillation cant be craft, just that you would really have to find the craft in your mash and barreling more so then the distillation.

one could argue, quite rightly IMHO, that a bourbon made from heirloom corn grown within 5 miles of the distillery, malted and mashed by hand, then distilled in a continuous distillation system before being aged in 15 gallon barrels for 3 years +, qualifies as a craft distilled bourbon. there is more involved then just the distillation system, but it is a major piece.

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biggest issue with continuous systems is the heads and tails extraction.

this can be done in a continuous column, but you will always end up with some "bleed" into the hearts.

this can still make a good whiskey, just typically requires longer in the barrel to achieve this.

also such a system would be completely automated, which would be hard to describe as craft.

Why would there be more "bleed" in a continuous column than a batch column or head ?

I would expect this should be dependent on the column design - no ?

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The way thse sytems operate, if they are designed right, the head and tails are vented off or are lost in the doubler. There are more congeners what some would call heads and tails left in a product of a column, but that is the beauty of it. That is why it will make such a good product. I am told many a Scottish malt distillers hve looked down on the boys in KY using columns, that is until they found out how they run their columns.

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another thing to think about that no ones talking about yet is that the market is being drowned by all of the craft distillerys . there is almost 50 just in washington state and more coming daily. with a continues still yeah you can make more faster but you got to think do i need more before i know if my product is going to be popular . you might be jumping the gun. not everyone can make great whisky and if we all can than we will all be looking for new jobs within 5 years. most distibuters are allready stopping taking on new clients because they have so many craft distillerys products that are already slowing way down in sells. just start small and keep your overhead down . make great booze with all your heart and soul and you might survive. goodluck brother

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