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Hose composition


PeteB

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There is probably one compound that distillery hoses can be made from that will handle all situations, but I imagine it is quite expensive. I would like to discuss the options, especially in regard to price.

We need to move high ABV spirit

Low ABV

Hot mash

Warm mash

Hot stillage

Hot water

Cold washdown water

I think most on this forum agree that high ABV spirit can be stored in High Density Polyethylene drums, could HDPE hoses be used? (In Australia we call it - black poly pipe) They are a bit rigid but very cheap!

What about PVC? Obviously no problem with cold washdown water if it is reinforced. I think the cheap reinforced garden hoses are PVC. I am guessing they are no good for high ABV but does anyone know if this is correct.

I have seen lengths of clear PVC(I assume) in distilleries, used for siphoning or pumping spirit.

I use a short silicon hose for siphoning samples. Are there types of silicon hose I should not use?

I have a hot washdown hose that is rated to 15 bar. The only issue I have with that is keeping it looking clean. It is white,or at least was.. I will try to buy darker coloured in future.

Are most hoses used in the wine industry OK for a distillery? They are easiest for me to buy.

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Hoses are just one of those things in a liquid manufacturing situation that can not be standardized to one type. I can think of at least 6 different hoses/pipes materials we use throughout the entirety of our process.

Why bother trying to standardize hose material? What is the expected benefit? And what about diameter? are you trying to standardize that too?

And Goodyear Purple Flexwing will set you back $18+ per foot before international shipping charges... http://www.generalrubberplastics.com/1-1-2-in-flexwing-purple-purple-chemical-transfer.html

-Scott

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That is what I was getting at Scott.

Why pay for a hose that is over spect. and over-priced?

For $18 I could get about 40 feet of good garden hose with fittings for floor washdown

Any suggestions for the cheapest options for each application?

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ohhhhhh. agreed.

I can't really comment on the cheapest options we've found, most all of our hoses are rather short, so they have a higher price-per-foot right off the bat. I will say that when I we initially designed our system, I went through great expense to only have the distillate, and then the vodka, come in contact with stainless, copper or Teflon (PTFE). I have learned since that restricting our design components to these materials is not a hard-fast requirement to ending with quality product. But the exact types of materials we use I'm going to keep to myself. :)

However, McMaster Carr has been a often-referenced guide when we are curious about material compatibility... http://www.mcmaster.com/#standard-plastic-and-rubber-tubing/=lmdluy See link at the top of the page "About Plastic and Rubber Tubing"

-Scott

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Goodyear purple flexwing will do all of that.

Is Purple Flexwing FDA Compliant? When I was researching this subject myself, I called Goodyear and asked if any of their food-grade hoses were compatible with high-proof ethanol. They said that none were compatible with <50% ABV. Maybe things have changed.

Pete, when considering price, don't forget to consider service life as well. Does a hose that is 1/2 the price of some other hose even last 1/2 as long? For example most garden hoses are basically garbage the moment that you buy them, IMHO. Speaking of water hoses, consider how much more service life a nice, industrial grade hose reel will add to your hose by preventing kinks and keeping it neatly coiled up out of your way and easily accessable. Worth the money, if you ask me.

A reinforcement helix inside of suction and discharge hoses might add to initial cost, but I've seen "expensive" goodyear etc hoses survive decades of severe use (well beyond their specified lifetime). How does this compare to a less expensive PVC hose that needs to be replaced annually?

As I've said previously, I'm a big fan of the glidetech distillery hose. It's not cheap (or easy to find) but I've been very happy with mine, and I'd be surprised if it ever needs replacing. Personally, I wouldn't consider using black poly for high proof spirits (when you've already invested so much in your spirits, why ruin them at the last minute with a cheap hose?)

Ask the manufacturers of the winery hoses that you mention about their suggested uses. I'm sure they'd be happy to help you out.

Nick

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I use a short silicon hose for siphoning samples. Are there types of silicon hose I should not use?

Platinum-cured silicone is preferred. Peroxide-cured silicone may leach stuff into the distillate. Or so I'm told. Braided silicone can handle some pressure, but the non-reinforced kind can't handle much.

If you buy stuff that is rated FDA 3A and USP class VI you're probably fine. But check the specs and chemical compatibility chart.

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If you buy stuff that is rated FDA 3A and USP class VI you're probably fine. But check the specs and chemical compatibility chart.

Definitely check the specs.

FDA 3A is a regulation relating to the cleanablilty of a surface. Typically, it applies to stainless tanks, fittings, etc, and it does indeed also apply to hoses. But FDA 3A says nothing about chemical compatibility, and it is therefore possible to buy a FDA 3A hose that is entirely unsuitable for use with ethanol.

I'm less familiar with USP class VI, but it seems to have more to do biocompatibility than chemical compatibiity. Likewise, I'd imagine that one could buy a USP class VI hose that was also unsuitable for use with ethanol.

The US regulation cited by the manufacturer of gildetech for the suitability of their UPE liner for DISTILLERY applications is 21CFR177.1520. It's a little longer than I've got time to read, and that sure makes me glad to have a manufacturer that I trust doing the hard work of finding compatible polymers for my specific industry, so that I can get back down to distilling.

I don't mean to keep going on about this hose (I'm not on their payroll, I swear). I'm just trying to warn everyone about some of the stumbling blocks that I've ran into over the years.

Nick

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There is a new Purple flewxwing out there mow. Mcgill hose is carrying it and it is sopposed to be the same hose but more flexible. McGill hose will make the hoses up in any configuration you want and I prefer female cam-lock on the hoses and male on all the equipment to prevent the fork lift from destroying the couplers. After dealing with tri-clover fittings a while you will see the advantage of cam-lock fittings too.

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Peter,

My experiences in Oz.

We use a winery grade stainless coil reinforced PVC to pump everything under 40% ABV. Pumping >40% is a challenge. Teflon core is stupidly expensive, pure silicone is ok, if you can get reinforced, but again expensive. We use a food grade white EPDM core, under a rubber sheath.

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  • 2 years later...

Silicone? You've seen no degradation? I were using silicone bungs to close off some drums at 175proof, noticed the bungs started loosing their firmness. Took the bungs out and put them in a jar with the high proof. It a week the silicone started falling apart. We've run from silicone in our high proof applications. EPDM is a good substitute, from what I've read and seen.

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