Piping Rock Distillery Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 I see everybody here correcting everyone when they write NGS and saying it's GNS. If that is the case then why do my quotes from Lake Distilling and Ultra-Pure say NGS (or Neutral Grain Spirits). I know that some get upset over this product being called NGS but if that is what the suppliers are calling it then isn't that exactly what it is? Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michaelangelo Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 My thoughts exactly, unless I am missing something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porter Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 Depends on where you're from. Some folks call a carbonated beverage a 'pop', some a 'soda', others 'soda pop'. Never heard anyone childish enough to argue the point on a serious level though. So I would say call it what you want and simply shake your head at anyone trying to correct you. Here's the Wikipedia definition of the ultra clear stuff......Apparently you are all wrong, it's PGA. And here I thought that was a golf thing. htt-://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neutral_grain_spirit "Neutral grain spirit (also called pure grain alcohol (PGA) or grain neutral spirit (GNS)) is a clear, colorless, flammable liquid that has been distilled from a grain-based mash to a very high level of ethanol content." Smile and have a swig.......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piping Rock Distillery Posted March 4, 2013 Author Share Posted March 4, 2013 I myself could care less what it's called but I get a little chuckle every time I see someone correct somebody over this. Beside, I'm a Virgo... to us the glass isn't half full, it isn't half empty. It's just dirty. Sold my clubs a many moons ago... no time for pleasure anymore as I'm in my 50's and it's all about "the work"... thank you Porter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beauport Bob Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 I certainly am not the Grammar Police, far from it. But, I may be one of those who do the "correcting". Agreed, it is language and language is ever changing. When folks come through, I only mention to them that, as I understand it, the TTB may prefer the item be called GNS. And there are enough differences in how the applications interpreted by individuals, that at least one thing can evidence a little homework has been done. Identifying specie being first, Grain Neutral Spirit, Cane Neutral Spirit, Grape Neutral Spirit. Think how this sounds.."Neutral Grain Spirit made from Cane". Also, I hope people know Wikipedia is a collaborative site, created and edited by contributors. A good start, but I always get confirmation on info gathered from it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowdery Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 I've been in this business for 40 years. I've always used GNS but I've never been confused when someone uses NGS. I just assumed they were European. Would it be great if we had more precision in business writing? Sure, but I gave up worrying about that 39.5 years ago. There isn't a lick of difference between the terms GNS and NGS. It's much like whiskey and whisky, though I suspect I'll get an argument about that. (I've heard it, I can assure you.) There's really no good case to be made for correcting someone who uses one over the other, even if you think your preference is better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piping Rock Distillery Posted March 5, 2013 Author Share Posted March 5, 2013 I agree it should have the product it's derived from first... that's what makes sense to me. As we all know they are not all made from "grain". That said, if the companies supplying the product call it Neutral Grain Spirit then I would think the TTB would (should) adopt that as the "correct" terminology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 Not that I really care either way, but one wouldn't say: Territory Neutral, or Journalist Neutral. In fact I can't think of any use of the noun/adjective "Neutral" in the manner described as GNS. Then again, I don't speak government. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowdery Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 Does the government have a preference? I thought we were talking about posters here 'correcting' other posters. There is logic to both formulations, but so what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan P. Posted March 6, 2013 Share Posted March 6, 2013 Not that I really care either way, but one wouldn't say: Territory Neutral, or Journalist Neutral. In fact I can't think of any use of the noun/adjective "Neutral" in the manner described as GNS. Then again, I don't speak government. It's the spirit that's neutral, not the grain, hence GNS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piping Rock Distillery Posted March 7, 2013 Author Share Posted March 7, 2013 It's the spirit that's neutral, not the grain, hence GNS. Then someone should tell the suppliers of NGS that they are not selling the correct product... ha-ha The TTB must be pretty relaxed on this subject otherwise we'd all know what to call it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tl5612 Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 grain spirit is a compound noun, made up of two individual nouns. neutral is an adjective. neutral grain spirit is better english. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan P. Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 grain spirit is a compound noun, made up of two individual nouns. neutral is an adjective. neutral grain spirit is better english. "Grain" is an attributive noun which can apply to either "spirit" or "neutral spirit", thus both GNS and NGS are grammatically correct. However, the term "neutral grain spirit" does not make clear whether it is the grain that is neutral, or the spirit, or both. Using the term "grain neutral spirit" does make it clear that we are talking about neutral spirit, not neutral grain, and is therefor semantically accurate. It's not an important issue for me, but if we are going to be pedantic, we might as well be pedantic and right. Anyway, if you put the emphasis on the first word, grain neutral spirit, it will sound less alien. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tl5612 Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 the juxtaposition of the two nouns 'grain' and 'spirit' imply that we're talking about the compounded item. grain spirit. while both are grammatically correct, it is more alien for grain to come first.... we are used to seeing grain as a noun. and we are used to seeing neutral as an adjective, placed before a noun. hence, in the UK we call it neutral grain spirit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevea Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 the juxtaposition of the two nouns 'grain' and 'spirit' imply that we're talking about the compounded item. grain spirit. while both are grammatically correct, it is more alien for grain to come first.... we are used to seeing grain as a noun. and we are used to seeing neutral as an adjective, placed before a noun. hence, in the UK we call it neutral grain spirit. Right like "blue cotton jeans" vs the alien "cotton blue jeans" NGS 'sounds' better to my ears, but I recall when defendants 'pled' rather that 'pleaded' and when 'sequester' was only a verb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coop Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 Potato patato, Tomato tomata, who really cares. coop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan P. Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 hence, in the UK we call it neutral grain spirit. HMRC refers to it as "grain spirit" or "neutral spirits of agricultural origin", depending on how it is processed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tl5612 Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 those are HMRC's classes of spirit. so long as the neutral spirit is of agricultural origin (for human consumption), they couldn't care less if it is grain or cane etc. ...they just want their taxes... [which, if some of you are thinking of exporting to UK are: £26.81 ($40) excise duty per litre of pure alcohol. followed up with 20% VAT (sales tax) chargeable on selling price (including the excise duty). not sure how that compares to rates over in the US.] anyway... combine the two...and bingo we get neutral grain spirit . even Cargill calls it NGS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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