Roger Posted April 27, 2013 Share Posted April 27, 2013 Has anyone had success or failure with laying steam and water pipes in floor trenches, to and from thier boiler / water room ? For example, laying pipes in the floor trench drain, suspended off the bottom , or in a separate parallel trench with a closed top,etc ? Pics would be great if anyone has them Thanks again Roger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattabv Posted April 29, 2013 Share Posted April 29, 2013 Good morning Roger. Two quick questions. 1 are they water tight (sealed), and two what about water, soilt mash and possibly spilt spirits possibly runnig into them? any thoughts? Matt. Hows it going? Getting close? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artisan Still Design Posted April 29, 2013 Share Posted April 29, 2013 typically steam pipes are run overhead, rather than under ground. this eliminates a whole host of issues than low slung pipes will have. you could run your condensate return in a trench, but you need to be sure you have constant slope along the length, and that would put your condensate pump below grade as well. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donutboy Posted April 29, 2013 Share Posted April 29, 2013 If they are not water tight trenches what happens with the steam pipe when it is operating comes in contact with water as you are cleaning your floors or equipment? I'm no rocket surgeon but I think you would lose some performance there. Hot pipes coming in contact with cooler water seems less efficient. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick jones Posted April 29, 2013 Share Posted April 29, 2013 If they are not water tight trenches what happens with the steam pipe when it is operating comes in contact with water as you are cleaning your floors or equipment? Hot pipes coming in contact with cooler water seems less efficient. Not to mention a bit stinky... floor drains have enough odor problems at room temp. And don't forget that even steam delivery pipes produce condensate and need to have steam traps installed in them, ideally routing back to the boiler via a condensate return system. Therefore if your steam delivery pipes were underground, there would have to be a lower area where the condensate drained to a pump and was pumped back to the boiler (unless the boiler was lower yet, of course). you could run your condensate return in a trench, but you need to be sure you have constant slope along the length, and that would put your condensate pump below grade as well. It seems feasable to me that the condensate pump itself could be installed above grade near the condensate source (with the condensate gravity draining into its reservoir as Steve says) and then pump down into a trench and back up into the boiler room. Coming from a distillery where the condenste returned to the boiler so hot that the boiler water return pump often cavitated due to excessive condensate temperatures, it occurs to me that a small heat sink (such as concrete slab) could have somewhat mitigated this problem. Indeed, if the boiler water make up was to be routed near the condensate return in the same trench, this would effectively pre-heat your make up water as well. You definitely want to keep your steam pipes where you can see them, though. And don't forget easy access for future additions, and extra boiler capacity for the same reason. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Posted April 30, 2013 Author Share Posted April 30, 2013 Thanks to all for the advise I should have been a bit more precise, i was specifically concerned with the condensate return more than anything, to move it back to the space under the boiler room without having to pump it. I have no prob putting a pump under the boiler room floor to bring the condensate back "up" to the boiler and tank, but just dont want a condensate pump on the distillery floor. I say this "assuming" that I would have to pump my condensate, as it would not have sufficent pressure to move up 8-10' then lateral 40'. Agreed that water and active steam are best placed overhead, but it sure would be pretty to have it all hidden from view and let the stills stand on their own. Although there is something to be said about the look of "complexity" for the show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick jones Posted May 1, 2013 Share Posted May 1, 2013 Generally speaking, your best bet is to minimize the distance between your steam trap and your condensate pump, especially because the condensate only has gravity to move it through this run. And remember, pumps are designed to push, not to pull, so the run from your condensate receiver to your pump should be minimal or nonexistent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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