hazy spirit

[rlw]

help we received our fed lisence last month. we have been working on different recipes to find something we like the most but have a problem with the diluting process. our water comes directly from the florida aquifer and produces a hazy finish we tried distilling our own water with the same result then bought distilled water same result. how can we get our crystal clear spirit to stay that way?rlw florida farm distillers

[Jonathan Forester]

Did you get a chemical analysis of your water before starting? Is it high in minerals, especially carbonates?

What products are you making?

Is it clear from the still? What type of still?

Are you filtering through activated charcoal?

You may need a reverses osmosis filter for your water to use from the start of your process. Then after wards if it is still hazy you may need to chill filter. It's better to start out with the cleanest and purest water first. Then if you have to chill filter you can do it as light as possible so the spirit is clear, without dramatic flavor loss. Unless you are making vodka, then chill filter the hell out of it.

help we received our fed lisence last month. we have been working on different recipes to find something we like the most but have a problem with the diluting process. our water comes directly from the florida aquifer and produces a hazy finish we tried distilling our own water with the same result then bought distilled water same result. how can we get our crystal clear spirit to stay that way?rlw florida farm distillers

[Gwydion Stone]

If you're distilling botanicals, especially things like (just a guess here) citrus, you may have too many essential oils in suspension, which will cloud up as you change the water/ethanol ratio. Real easy to do with things like gin.

[Low Vane WVa]

try spring water from the ground, that might do the trick

[Ralph at Tuthilltown]

It may also be a protein haze. Some of our customers prefer it. But clear is good. You can refer to winery manuals for a clarifying agent, or chill filter. Good luck.

[Jonathan Forester]

The water from aquifers in Florida is pretty bad, usually slightly brackish. So suggesting using spring water won't really help the problem, since it may be the problem.

try spring water from the ground, that might do the trick

[Nick Carbone]

The water from aquifers in Florida is pretty bad, usually slightly brackish. So suggesting using spring water won't really help the problem, since it may be the problem.

Hi there Nick at Fat Dog Spirits in Tampa FL. I use R/O water to dilute down to bottle proof. Some of our water is good but the stuff from the municipal supply can have other minerals etc that can effect taste. I think since you tried bottled distilled water you have taken out the effect of the local water being the problem. It would help to know what you are distilling but if it's citrus you get a considerable haze when diluting. Some of it will dissipate as it dissolves. This is that old argument even the whisky makers wrestle with. Do you chill filter or not. You will remove some flavor.

Welcome to the very small group of Florida distillers. With you that makes 4 of us I believe.

Nick

[Osocalis]

Use soft water and go slow! Especially below 48% you need to go in increments of ~2% and wait for the spirit and the water to marry (many weeks at the quickest). If you need to rush, think of chill filtering. You will remove some flavor but it’s the only solution.

It takes us ~ 3 years to do a dilution get the spirit to marry and prevent haze formation.

Good luck!

[rlw]

Did you get a chemical analysis of your water before starting? Is it high in minerals, especially carbonates?

What products are you making?

Is it clear from the still? What type of still?

Are you filtering through activated charcoal?

You may need a reverses osmosis filter for your water to use from the start of your process. Then after wards if it is still hazy you may need to chill filter. It's better to start out with the cleanest and purest water first. Then if you have to chill filter you can do it as light as possible so the spirit is clear, without dramatic flavor loss. Unless you are making vodka, then chill filter the hell out of it.

[rlw]

thanks for your input. we are trying to find a good whiskey recipe and doing ok, not great. talked to a local water treatment guy about what they do. we decided for testing purposes to try an inexpensive brita filtering system and saw a big improvement. not commercial clear though. there is a lot of talk about chill filtering, can you provide a source to learn about this process?thanks rlw

[rlw]

It may also be a protein haze. Some of our customers prefer it. But clear is good. You can refer to winery manuals for a clarifying agent, or chill filter. Good luck.

[rlw]

i can't tell that the haze affects the taste but i think commercially speaking someone picking off the shelf might notice the difference and be put off. do clarifying agents affects the taste? do you have a source for info on chill filtering? sounds expensive.thanks for your help. rlw

[rlw]

Hi there Nick at Fat Dog Spirits in Tampa FL. I use R/O water to dilute down to bottle proof. Some of our water is good but the stuff from the municipal supply can have other minerals etc that can effect taste. I think since you tried bottled distilled water you have taken out the effect of the local water being the problem. It would help to know what you are distilling but if it's citrus you get a considerable haze when diluting. Some of it will dissipate as it dissolves. This is that old argument even the whisky makers wrestle with. Do you chill filter or not. You will remove some flavor.

Welcome to the very small group of Florida distillers. With you that makes 4 of us I believe.

Nick

[rlw]

thanks for the reply nick. we are working with different whiskey recipes. apparently we did this process in reverse, it appears most people know how to distill what they want and then get permits. we are true rookies.... what is r/o water? we have had other replys about chill filtering and would appreciate any info you could share. did the state require you to have your fed permit before your state permit ? d p b r seems very confused.

[Jonathan Forester]

RO means reverse osmosis, it's probably the best type of filtering for a distilleries purpose. They aren't cheap, but not too expensive either. Not beyond a typical distilleries budget. Figure out your daily filtered water needs, then buy a system that's bigger than you need. You don't want to have to upgrade later.

Chill filtering is basically lowering the temperature of the spirits to below 32F so that precipitates form, and then filtering/centrifuging them out.

Personally I'd go with RO and take care of the problem up front. Then you may not have to filter your spirits at all, and so maintain the most flavor.

[Native Cracker]

This is shawn I talked to you on the phone last week. It sounds like you are getting your heads and tails to close to your middle run. If you checked your water and it is clean add your hazy spirits back to your next batch of wash and make smaller cuts only keeping the middle run. use only activated carbon to filter, call me if you have any questions.

Native Cracker

If you're distilling botanicals, especially things like (just a guess here) citrus, you may have too many essential oils in suspension, which will cloud up as you change the water/ethanol ratio. Real easy to do with things like gin.

[Rum]

There are some pretty inexpensive reverse osmosis units available now. I am using a Merlin 700 for mixing water. It supposedly can produce 700 gallons per day of r/o water. I paid about $330 for the basic system. I also added an inexpensive carbon filter in the line before the r/o unit.

Here is one online seller: http://www.uswatersystems.com/shop/product...sis-System.html

[Tupper Lake Distillery]

Caused by tails if water is good.

Check your cuts, you could be getting tails in the heart (to late cut off from heart) or running too fast/hot dragging tails through complete run.

(actually, how are you determining your cuts)?

[dargento]

RLW, here's a chemistry/physics bit for you to mull over (this info can be found in books on the topic):

the chill has is usaully the result of carbonates, either calcium or magnesium carbonate. I'm not sure exactly where it comes from in the process, I'm still learning this stuff myself. In high proof alcohol, carbonates have very high solubility, so it will be crystal clear. However, when you add water, this reduces the abv, dramatically reducing the solubility. So instead of being in solution, the calcium or magnesium ions get together with their carbonate brothers to form the full non-dissolved carbonate molecule - hence, haze. Temperature affects solubility (think about the difference between stirring sugar in to cold water versus a cup of hot tea - the hot tea dissolves the sugar almost instantaneously and can accomodate much more than cold water). This is why people refer to chill filtering. Make your vodka as cold as possible so as much of the carbonate precipitates, and then filter. This removes as much carbonate as possible from the product.

In the small amount of experimenting I've done, I've been surprised to see how much carbonate makes it's way through the distilling process. Starting with soft water seems to be the way to go, as long as it doesn't adversely affect your yeast. That being said, I believe calcium is a vital yeast neutrient.

Cheers,

Dave

[Max Action]

rlw, the problem is not your water. as previously mentioned above, you've got too many oily compounds dissolved in your alcohol. Oil and water don't mix, so when you add water it turns cloudy. Same reason why Absinthe looks milky when you dilute it. Try a higher proof, or reduce your ingredients.

If it's not secret, what is in your recipe?

[Wilder]

I think its going to be you distilling process.