WilmingtonWhiskey Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 Does anyone know of a commercial grade digital / Analog ABV meter? More specifically, I am looking for something that can measure/read alcohol content instantaneously and be able to transmit that data in either a digital or analog string for monitoring and event triggering. Anyone know where to start looking? Search query ideas? Thanks!! -Ryan Wilmington Whiskey & Spirits Co. ryan@wilmingtonwhiskey.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWFiggins Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 Hi Ryan, You need a digital density meter, or desitometer. Contact Jay Skovbjerg at Anton-Paar ( jay.skovbjerg@anton-paar.com ), and ask him about the Anton Paar DMA 35. I own one and I like its speed, accuracy and reliability. Have a look at these: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CBXE3aULABs http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fqe3QVZ-odE Tell Jay that Rusty sent you, and he might be able to give you the trade show discount, especially if you'll be attending the ADI conference! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natrat Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 Check this out: http://www.ttb.gov/rulings/91-2.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilmingtonWhiskey Posted February 12, 2014 Author Share Posted February 12, 2014 Thanks for the input guys. By trade, I am a commercial audio/visual integrator and I have automated pretty much EVERYTHING that you can think of, so, of course, I want to automate how I make my cuts. My idea is to trigger solenoid valves at specific readings to divert heads, hearts and tails to different storage vessels. Anything after that I have no problem doing the tried and true method. Thanks again! PS. I promise to come and introduce myself very soon! Also, just an FYI, Front Street Brewery is having a Home Brew judging party this Saturday @ 7PM which might be fun. AND, I plan on picking up my Pappy Party ticket this week as well http://www.frontstreetbrewery.com/public_events/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick jones Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 WW, If you want to trigger valves to make cuts, I'd recommend that you take advantage of the direct (edit: inverse) correlation between vapor temperature and ABV. Thermometers are waaaaaaaaay less expensive than densitometers. Just install a thermometer right before your condenser, determine the temperatures that correlate to your desired ABVs, and automate away. You'll have enough money left over to buy a robot to automate the raising of your glass to your lips. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natrat Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 WW, I've seen just this on a Carl still. The parrot was built with room for 3 hydrometers, and used proximity sensors to actuate solenoids. The idea was when the ABV/proof got to a certain point, the hydrometer would float up to the prox sensor and actuate the solenoid. That would go from heads to hearts (basically the solenoid to heads was NO and the prox would close it.) and then when the abv got down to a certain point, a second prox sensor would hit the second solenoid to divert the tails. I have pix of the system on my computer, somewhere. I'll post a link to them when I get home. The still is the one at the Starlight Distillery at Huber Wineries in Indiana. They have hosted the ADI conference several times, and I'll bet several people have pix. In addition, Jason, the distiller there is a hell of a guy, and I'm sure he'd be happy to answer any questions you have. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilmingtonWhiskey Posted February 13, 2014 Author Share Posted February 13, 2014 NATRAT- BINGO! I probably have all the right stuff laying around to make that happen! Didn't event think of a mechanical solution! I guess I have to step back and get my head out of a "networked" environment every once and a while! Now as long as everything goes smoothly with my DSP paperwork I can try this out!! Thanks again guys for all of you input! -Ryan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silk City Distillers Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Wow that is elegant, I was following this thread and I hadn't even considered multiple hydrometers, that opens up many possibilities. You could probably do this much more inexpensively with cheap microswitches (vs expensive proximity sensors that need to be calibrated). Geez - even easier, a slot type photosensor like one of these: http://www.ia.omron.com/products/family/2716/ Just need to find one with the slot a bit wider than the hydrometer, and mount it on an adjustable slide so you can adjust the trigger points. Maybe a little guide to make sure it can ride up and down without binding. I'd break the light path with the tip of the hydrometer, so the photosensor would need to be mounted a little distance above the liquid level of the parrot. Adjustment would be as easy as holding the hydrometer and the correct level and raising or lowering the photosensor until it trips. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Isn't part of the issue with this that the density of the liquid is directly dependent on the temperature, therein causing the hydrometer to "float" at different levels not only by ABV but by its correlation to the temperature therein ? Perhaps you could float the hydrometer in a secondary jacketed collection tube . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natrat Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Roger, I don't know about you, but I've got my product runs dialed in, and my tipple comes off the still always at the same temp. And for head and tail cuts, it's all subjective...not numbers...so what the hydro reads is probably secondary to when YOU think you should make your cuts. And I think that's why Jason has manual switches on his solenoids :-) And this isn't for proofing...so supercalifragilistic numbers aren't that essential. Having said that, you could cool or heat your condensate to calibration temperature...or just calibrate your runs to come off AT calibration temperature (calibrate, syncopate, initiate, terminate!) (sorry, inside joke) but as far as I'm concerned, I'd set mine for late head cut and early tail cut...for a "Just in case" scenario. Even better, use a mass spectrometer. Or a load sensor. Or you could even probably futz around with a conductivity tester. I like the steampunk aspect of bobbing hydros. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silk City Distillers Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Aw heck, just take the temp out of the equation and just do it by weight of the collected distillate (you said load cell, got the idea). Assuming you are running the same recipe - and can keep a consistent enough ferment and abv. The weight of your cuts would be very similar each time, and wouldn't be impacted by temp. Wouldn't this be even easier? (Or just do it manually, I'd never keep a still running unattended, so what's the big deal with watching the parrot and trusting in your tongue?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 I don't say I was going to do any of this, I was just talking theory. If you can't taste it, why bother doing it at all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natrat Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 I don't say I was going to do any of this, I was just talking theory. If you can't taste it, why bother doing it at all Amen, brother Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fldme Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 All this is fine and dandy. But don't you actually want to use your nose to make cuts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natrat Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 I have a hard time moving the valve with my nose. Hurts too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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